Nov. 16, 2021

NFT Artist EpicThunderCat: Live from Emo Dojo


John welcomes EpicThunderCat, a rising NFT artist with deep ties to both the art community and mental health outreach. As an artist and licensed mental health worker, her new project "Monsters of Mind" aims to spread mental health awareness through digital artwork, more commonly known as NFTs.

The discussion is wide-ranging and covers a lot of interesting topics, including ...

  • DSM and the inherent corporate bias of psych labels
  • Wrong meds; unmet expectations
  • Pill shaming and stigma
  • Diversity in the NFT space
  • Difficulties in on-boarding new artists
  • The Fear of Change
  • The Fear of Financial Freedom
  • Narcissism in Society
  • Epicthundercat’s Origins Story
  • The Art Process
  • Opensea and Objkt
  • Companies have roadmaps; artists have vision maps
  • The Monsters of Mind Collection
  • Shoutout: Conrad at Outcastverse
  • Diversity in NFTs; hiding behind your PFP
  • Shoutout: Guttercat Gang
  • Getting Over The Hump
  • Give it at least 12 months
  • Epicthundercat breaks through social anxiety and fear of speaking!

Cover art for this episode is a cropped portion of EpicThunderCat's "Love - 13" trading at .35 ETH when this podcast was uploaded. Learn more at EpicThunderCat.com Follow @johnemotions on Twitter

Transcript
WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.600 --> 00:00:06.839 All right, welcome back. I'm John and you've stepped into the EMO Dojo. 2 00:00:07.269 --> 00:00:10.189 Thanks for showing up today. We've got a fantastic show. You're going 3 00:00:10.269 --> 00:00:15.109 to love it. Regardless if you came from the art, the technology or 4 00:00:15.310 --> 00:00:20.989 the mental health background, this episode is for you. So little context first, 5 00:00:21.030 --> 00:00:23.980 and we're going to jump right into it. My guest name today is 6 00:00:24.219 --> 00:00:29.660 epic thundercat. Sounds kind of odd, but when you realized she is a 7 00:00:30.019 --> 00:00:35.380 artist in the NFT space, and in the NFT space everyone uses pseudonyms, 8 00:00:35.500 --> 00:00:39.210 you know, pen names, stage names, whatnot very common, not as 9 00:00:39.250 --> 00:00:42.049 weird as it sounds at all. And what you are about to hear is 10 00:00:42.130 --> 00:00:49.609 effectively the entire conversation we recorded live at Emo Dojo. What's really cool about 11 00:00:49.649 --> 00:00:54.200 it is that she and I both have adhd. So there is not a 12 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:58.799 dull moment in this entire podcast. So grab some water, buckling your seat 13 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:03.349 belt and get ready, because we've got a good solid hour of epic thundercat 14 00:01:03.709 --> 00:01:18.430 here in the Emo Dojo. There's suddenly homewort, that diagnosis out there. 15 00:01:18.549 --> 00:01:23.219 So isn't it wild out everything is so interconnected, like all of the diagnosis 16 00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:26.180 seem to be in a connection to more you book at any one of them? 17 00:01:26.219 --> 00:01:30.060 Yeah, I've actually thought that they need to change the DSM to have 18 00:01:30.260 --> 00:01:34.730 spectrumized mental illnesses rather than just blatant this is the diagnosis and these are the 19 00:01:34.769 --> 00:01:38.689 symptoms, because really the insurance companies are who wrote that to begin with and 20 00:01:38.769 --> 00:01:42.049 it's not very human centered and it's not very accurate for a lot of people 21 00:01:42.049 --> 00:01:47.010 who are like in the middle of different labels. Yeah, that's actually a 22 00:01:47.049 --> 00:01:49.640 really good point. I didn't think about that. Who actually wrote like the 23 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.840 DSM labels? And to your point, it had to have been some industry, 24 00:01:55.159 --> 00:01:57.680 the industry that you know benefits from labeling things. So, yeah, 25 00:01:57.879 --> 00:02:01.469 that's it was the insurance companies. That's why they have all the numbers when 26 00:02:01.510 --> 00:02:05.430 you go into like the doctors or whatever and they have like the number codes. 27 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:08.110 Yeah, if like a mental health crisis or whatever, it was totally 28 00:02:08.150 --> 00:02:14.469 the insurance companies. So there's an interesting argument in the psychology field in itself 29 00:02:14.509 --> 00:02:17.699 about whether people should be using the DSM as much as they are or whether 30 00:02:17.740 --> 00:02:23.180 they should be more human centered with the way that they diagnosed individuals. So 31 00:02:23.819 --> 00:02:27.419 I'm on the human centered spectrum. I prefer to talk to people first before 32 00:02:27.740 --> 00:02:31.250 just immediately subjecting them to a permanent label. So, oh my gosh. 33 00:02:31.289 --> 00:02:35.289 Yeah, and it's such a double edged sword. To begin with, for 34 00:02:35.490 --> 00:02:38.650 example, I didn't know what was wrong with me and when it first ran 35 00:02:38.729 --> 00:02:45.039 off to the hospital and got diagnosed with something. So when they first diagnosed 36 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:49.599 me with something, I was both happy and relieved. I'm like, Oh 37 00:02:49.719 --> 00:02:52.400 good, I'm not just a fucking asshole. I have something, right, 38 00:02:52.479 --> 00:02:54.759 I have something, like now I can go tell all my friends and family 39 00:02:54.800 --> 00:03:00.830 and Co workers that I just have bipolar disorder. And that didn't work out 40 00:03:00.870 --> 00:03:04.669 so well either. They're like, Yep, year, an asshole who has 41 00:03:04.789 --> 00:03:08.949 bipolar disorder. Great, like fuck. So anyway, so some people can 42 00:03:09.069 --> 00:03:13.139 be both. Yeah, yeah, thirteople, and for sure, because it 43 00:03:13.219 --> 00:03:15.900 takes a while. Well, and then it turns out later that I got 44 00:03:15.060 --> 00:03:19.539 diagnosed with something else. There's a list of like, Oh, you know 45 00:03:19.580 --> 00:03:24.300 about code morbidity. So later became straight depression and ADHD, which I had 46 00:03:24.340 --> 00:03:29.169 had for most of my life. So it wasn't manic, it was hyperactivity. 47 00:03:29.330 --> 00:03:32.129 Those type of things make it mixed up. Did they initially try putting 48 00:03:32.129 --> 00:03:38.129 you on medication for bipolar disorder, and that was like totally yful. All 49 00:03:38.210 --> 00:03:42.240 of them like it. Well, and it wasn't awful like the medication didn't 50 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:45.719 have horrendous side effects, awful, it was awful and that we expected it 51 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:47.439 to work and nothing worked. It was awful like that. Yeah, so, 52 00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:53.039 yeah, all the antipsychotics and everything dry them all went down the list, 53 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:55.189 even the most recent ones, like some Bolta, up to about three 54 00:03:55.229 --> 00:04:00.229 years ago when we finally looked at my old, like childhood records, after 55 00:04:00.270 --> 00:04:01.710 I talked to my mom, who had, you know, not been talking, 56 00:04:01.830 --> 00:04:05.509 but found out oh yeah, I might have been both autistic and a 57 00:04:05.629 --> 00:04:10.740 total spas as a kid, which is something I could have used in my 58 00:04:10.900 --> 00:04:15.939 adult journey to my own sanity. So, yeah, I got off the 59 00:04:15.699 --> 00:04:20.100 bipolar mids because I'm not sure that that's accurate. See, that's the other 60 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:24.259 concern I have to is that oftentimes they will over medicate, and I am 61 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:28.529 I am totally promit cation and I am really against pill shaming because that is 62 00:04:28.569 --> 00:04:30.970 a common problem which is leading to a lot of the negative stigma and our 63 00:04:31.009 --> 00:04:34.449 culture. People don't want to take meds and then their symptoms get worse. 64 00:04:34.730 --> 00:04:38.290 You know, they don't want to deal with the stigma behind the medication itself, 65 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:43.720 but they also overprescribe and it scares people and they need second you know, 66 00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:46.240 they need like a second opinion a lot of the times in these places 67 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:49.279 to really understand. or they'll diagnose someone after meeting them one time and be 68 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:51.040 like, Oh, well, I don't know, but you match these so 69 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:55.069 here you go, here's a pill, and really people need more follow ups 70 00:04:55.069 --> 00:04:57.189 than that a lot of the time. Oh yeah, so much, so 71 00:04:57.310 --> 00:04:59.709 much. And that is the thing, and I don't really blame the doctors. 72 00:04:59.790 --> 00:05:01.149 I've seen, you know, by the time you have that kind of 73 00:05:01.189 --> 00:05:08.019 a mental problem of disorder, illness whatever, a lot of people I know 74 00:05:08.139 --> 00:05:12.060 end up broke. So you end up going to the hospitals with the most 75 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:15.740 burden. They have the lowest paid staff, with the highest case load and 76 00:05:15.980 --> 00:05:19.860 they're doing Oh yes, right, so they just want to ease the suffering 77 00:05:19.899 --> 00:05:24.850 at the moment. Clearly you're having a moment. Here's some, you know, 78 00:05:25.009 --> 00:05:29.329 tranquilizer, go settle down, take some lamital, go see a doctor 79 00:05:29.370 --> 00:05:31.569 in a week, that kind of thing. So I guess it's just to 80 00:05:31.730 --> 00:05:35.160 each individual. If you accept the label that they just gave you and you're 81 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:38.399 going to go with it, well, you might get stuck on the wrong 82 00:05:38.519 --> 00:05:42.240 path for a couple of years. So yes, second and third opinion always. 83 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.199 And Yeah, definitely big time. On the pill shaming, that's that's 84 00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:47.920 really rough. I was never really peel shamed because I was in a culture. 85 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:53.870 That was the least of their problems. They were doing cocaine and you 86 00:05:53.949 --> 00:05:58.189 know, all right, all, but harder drugs than that. Even so, 87 00:05:58.430 --> 00:06:00.269 like, what's that? People that? Yeah, go ahead. That 88 00:06:00.389 --> 00:06:03.660 fashion fascinates me too, because there's a lot of people that will take drugs 89 00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:09.060 recreationally instead of taking the medication the doctors give. For some reason they view 90 00:06:09.060 --> 00:06:13.980 it is safer in a different way because, like it's been experimented on so 91 00:06:14.139 --> 00:06:16.259 much or something, I don't know, like it's self medicating as a whole. 92 00:06:16.259 --> 00:06:20.329 Yeah, yeah, and it's so risky nowadays. I didn't really think 93 00:06:20.329 --> 00:06:24.209 about it as I was, yeah, younger, but now, when I 94 00:06:24.290 --> 00:06:27.769 think that you could just be putting anything in your body literally and it you 95 00:06:27.810 --> 00:06:30.490 could just died at any moment, it's so weird. It is, and 96 00:06:31.170 --> 00:06:34.360 you know, they're I so before. Right now I work for the government 97 00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:43.199 as a vocational rehabilitation counselor but before I worked in just privatized mental health and 98 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:46.720 let me just say, it is a mess, the whole system. I 99 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.069 mean I'm over here in Oregon and I don't know about other states, but 100 00:06:50.110 --> 00:06:53.990 I know over here it is such a mess. There is just not enough 101 00:06:55.430 --> 00:06:59.189 looking into what's going on in a lot of the facilities, along with just 102 00:06:59.310 --> 00:07:01.339 so many horror stories people who have their meds and there's no support staff. 103 00:07:01.420 --> 00:07:05.540 There's they're like you're saying, they're very underpaid, which increases all of the 104 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:10.100 trauma because then you have staff that aren't trained properly to deal with the diagnosis 105 00:07:10.220 --> 00:07:14.740 and the symptom sets that are going on and it is so chaotic. I 106 00:07:14.899 --> 00:07:17.209 believe you. Yet I've been to I've lived in California for most of my 107 00:07:17.329 --> 00:07:24.449 life, lived in Louisiana and Oklahoma also, and you know the basically the 108 00:07:24.569 --> 00:07:28.569 closer you move to a big city, if you're willing and able to dig 109 00:07:28.769 --> 00:07:31.920 into the roots of the you know, civic safety net, you can find 110 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.399 help in those big cities, but man, the moment you get into an 111 00:07:34.399 --> 00:07:39.279 outskirt town or anything like that, year on your own. Oh a lot 112 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:42.720 of the doctors in those areas. I've come to realize just from my friends 113 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:46.149 experiences. I have friends that live in the middle of nowhere and move from 114 00:07:46.189 --> 00:07:48.670 the city and a lot of the doctors are like the reject doctors. Yeah, 115 00:07:48.670 --> 00:07:50.829 how do you mean? But they're like the doctors that couldn't make it 116 00:07:50.870 --> 00:07:54.310 in the city. So they end up out there and there they don't know 117 00:07:54.350 --> 00:07:57.829 what they're doing it there's no coverage or there's just so such limited funding, 118 00:07:57.870 --> 00:08:01.740 they can't really do anything. It's so frustrating to that's funny. I went 119 00:08:01.779 --> 00:08:05.139 to continuation school when I was younger because I got kicked out of regular school 120 00:08:05.379 --> 00:08:09.779 and I didn't learn until I was in college that the teachers at continuation school 121 00:08:09.860 --> 00:08:13.250 had also been kicked out of the regular high schools. Oh, like literally 122 00:08:13.410 --> 00:08:18.490 for cause. Well, like they had some some mark on their their performance 123 00:08:18.569 --> 00:08:20.529 record that they're like yeah, but we can't really fire you because of the 124 00:08:20.689 --> 00:08:24.490 Union, so we're going to send you to deal with the rug rat pack. 125 00:08:26.449 --> 00:08:30.079 Is the continuation school? Is that like the where the troubled kids went 126 00:08:30.120 --> 00:08:33.399 or whatever? Yeah, yeah, exactly, because I okay, so my 127 00:08:33.639 --> 00:08:39.559 history totally graduated in those one of those two just because, yeah, it 128 00:08:39.759 --> 00:08:43.190 was. I mean I didn't necessarily belong there. I wasn't one of the 129 00:08:43.190 --> 00:08:46.110 drug addict kids or anything, but, like I went through all this trauma 130 00:08:46.149 --> 00:08:48.389 when I was younger because my grandma died and it was like a lot to 131 00:08:48.470 --> 00:08:52.230 take on. So, like, I g graduated with such a low GPA, 132 00:08:54.190 --> 00:08:56.860 but now I have a master's degree. So yeah, and you're giving 133 00:08:56.860 --> 00:09:00.620 it back. So that's I mean, we're talking a lot about mental health, 134 00:09:00.659 --> 00:09:03.340 which is awesome, because my audience has followed me through this whole journey 135 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:07.779 and I've even changed the name of the show several times, like it used 136 00:09:07.820 --> 00:09:11.490 to be. Originally, like five years ago, it was literally called bipolar 137 00:09:11.570 --> 00:09:15.809 style because I thought I had bipolar disorder. So as it's evolved, I 138 00:09:15.929 --> 00:09:16.889 just changed the name of the show, in the focus of the show. 139 00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:22.889 But they stick around. So they've been on this nft journey with me for 140 00:09:22.970 --> 00:09:26.200 the past several weeks. They know that I've fallen down the rabbit hole and 141 00:09:26.279 --> 00:09:28.840 it's fucking on. Right. I'm like, Whoa, this is the whole 142 00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:35.440 so good. Right, it's like nothing else I've ever experienced. It's I 143 00:09:35.519 --> 00:09:37.750 don't know, right, community and everything, maybe acid. Let me going 144 00:09:37.870 --> 00:09:41.509 back to the drugs. It's kind of like acid, I think as a 145 00:09:41.549 --> 00:09:46.070 kid, but it's so mindblowing and, to the point I was about to 146 00:09:46.149 --> 00:09:50.269 make a second ago, you are really giving back to the mental health community. 147 00:09:50.350 --> 00:09:54.220 So you went through the trauma as a young person and then you brought 148 00:09:54.220 --> 00:09:56.899 your way through it. He got out of the hell that is high school 149 00:09:58.179 --> 00:10:01.980 and then you decided to go back to school and Excel. But not just 150 00:10:01.139 --> 00:10:05.419 that a thing that you didn't go become a banker or real estate agent or 151 00:10:05.500 --> 00:10:09.009 something like that. You are back to the mental health field. So I 152 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:11.850 think that says a lot about you as a person and it also kind of 153 00:10:11.889 --> 00:10:16.169 reflects the way that you act in the mental health I mean, I'm sorry, 154 00:10:16.210 --> 00:10:20.129 in the NFT space on twitter, I see you like reaching back a 155 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:22.840 lot and all of a sudden your work is really started to explode. So 156 00:10:22.919 --> 00:10:28.480 that must be super exciting. It is. I'm really excited about it because 157 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:33.279 I'm hoping that in this space I can help create more equity, just because 158 00:10:33.320 --> 00:10:37.309 I feel like we need more diversity in the space in general as a whole. 159 00:10:37.309 --> 00:10:41.909 We need just more people and I feel like I'd like to help kind 160 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:45.710 of onboard people that don't really know the space very much. Because I feel 161 00:10:45.710 --> 00:10:50.700 like my project in particular is pretty gentle for that. The community is really 162 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:54.179 accepting. Everyone's really kind and empathetic and each of my moderators all have their 163 00:10:54.220 --> 00:11:00.539 own mental health lived experience. So anyone that might be having a problem or 164 00:11:00.580 --> 00:11:03.340 something it like, let's say, I don't know, somebody had like a 165 00:11:03.460 --> 00:11:07.769 trauma trigger or something. Yeah, they're pretty cool about it, like they 166 00:11:07.850 --> 00:11:11.330 wouldn't stigmatize or negatively impact somebody else. Like I've tried to keep it or 167 00:11:11.409 --> 00:11:16.409 like a really friendly atmosphere and I've worked really hard at that because I feel 168 00:11:16.409 --> 00:11:18.399 like there's not enough of that, and there is. There is a lot 169 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:24.200 of community centered aspects in the NFT space overall and it's absolutely beautiful. But 170 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:28.200 I think my project is a little bit different in the fact that I've really 171 00:11:28.240 --> 00:11:33.830 strived for like people that understand other people. So it's it's a very comfortable 172 00:11:33.870 --> 00:11:39.350 community. Isn't that Nice that you're able to kind of synchronize your life with 173 00:11:39.470 --> 00:11:41.950 nfts, like the things that you always thought you wanted to? Wish I 174 00:11:41.990 --> 00:11:45.269 could do this and some of that, but Geez, I have to keep 175 00:11:45.309 --> 00:11:48.100 a day job to pay the rent. But now all of a sudden things 176 00:11:48.100 --> 00:11:52.860 are aligning and it seems like people of the future are just going to lead 177 00:11:52.340 --> 00:11:58.419 way more aligned lives. I think so. I think the future is going 178 00:11:58.419 --> 00:12:01.809 to be in the metaverse. I really do. I think. I mean, 179 00:12:01.850 --> 00:12:05.289 I don't know, there's all those, you know, dystopian movies and 180 00:12:05.370 --> 00:12:09.730 everything, and there's this part of me I just it's glorified in my mind 181 00:12:09.929 --> 00:12:13.970 because I grew up with Cyberpunctystopia type stuff. I mean, I'm ammennial totally, 182 00:12:13.250 --> 00:12:16.120 but and I know, I just feel like humanity is moving in that 183 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:20.759 direction at least a little bit, and I think in the future we're going 184 00:12:20.759 --> 00:12:22.639 to see a lot of implementation with these nfts are going to be able to 185 00:12:22.679 --> 00:12:26.759 be put in a video games and other things that are even more like tangible 186 00:12:28.159 --> 00:12:31.549 that people will understand, and I'm just really excited for the future of it. 187 00:12:33.070 --> 00:12:35.190 Yeah, it is hard to on board do people, so I'm glad 188 00:12:35.230 --> 00:12:39.669 you're given it. You're all as well. Part of that difficulty, I've 189 00:12:39.710 --> 00:12:45.580 found, is getting people to understand and believe in, you know, construct 190 00:12:45.659 --> 00:12:48.340 on top of construct. It's a lot like I was telling my friend the 191 00:12:48.419 --> 00:12:52.419 other day, it's a lot like trying to convince maybe the old gold miners 192 00:12:52.460 --> 00:12:56.740 and the eighteen hundreds to give me your gold and I'm going to give you 193 00:12:56.779 --> 00:13:01.649 this piece of paper. They're like what I think? I think another thing 194 00:13:01.730 --> 00:13:05.129 that people don't talk about enough in the space is a psychology behind fear of 195 00:13:05.169 --> 00:13:11.049 change. I mean there's a huge, huge fear of change among like humanity 196 00:13:11.049 --> 00:13:13.080 as a whole, and this is a big change. I mean we're taking 197 00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.200 art, which was a tangible physical object, and even though people are buying 198 00:13:18.240 --> 00:13:22.279 these assets and video games and things that don't have like real world value, 199 00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.960 they're having a hard time understanding the lack of like physical sensation. I guess 200 00:13:26.080 --> 00:13:30.950 with the art and the artists themselves are having to learn there's a whole new 201 00:13:30.990 --> 00:13:35.629 way to market and it's bridging with that crypto chain and they're people that maybe 202 00:13:35.629 --> 00:13:39.070 don't have experience with that. They're just struggling to understand. And with change 203 00:13:39.070 --> 00:13:46.620 also comes grief. Oddly enough, there's a huge similarity with change in grief. 204 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:50.299 The same symptoms go for both. They go through the same symptom sets, 205 00:13:50.340 --> 00:13:52.659 and so it's kind of just going to be like this process of people 206 00:13:52.700 --> 00:13:56.009 getting used to it over and over and over and that's eventually how our society 207 00:13:56.090 --> 00:13:58.250 is going to have to adapt and there's going to be a lot of people 208 00:13:58.250 --> 00:14:01.529 are angry. They're going to go through that stage. You're going to become 209 00:14:01.529 --> 00:14:05.649 upset or sad. I mean, it's just it's just part of being human. 210 00:14:05.289 --> 00:14:07.690 Wow, that's a great point. I mean, I never really thought 211 00:14:07.730 --> 00:14:11.759 of it that but but that's all that grief is, is change. It's 212 00:14:11.879 --> 00:14:16.039 just it is. It's intense, immense change that causes sadness like a usually 213 00:14:16.200 --> 00:14:20.240 loss, but it doesn't have to be a loss or I don't know, 214 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.870 without getting in the weeds here, but man, that's such a great way 215 00:14:24.870 --> 00:14:28.110 to look at it, because I've lost some things in life that, you 216 00:14:28.230 --> 00:14:31.710 know, in hindsight, it was just the change. It was just going 217 00:14:31.789 --> 00:14:37.350 to the unknown, leaving the Comfort Zone, and boy that that's such a 218 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:41.100 valid point. When you're trying to on board New People, is really being 219 00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:46.700 empathetic and kind to the fact that the old ways are just, you know, 220 00:14:46.899 --> 00:14:50.779 we're basically almost, seems like, in telling them we're going to the 221 00:14:50.860 --> 00:14:54.409 Meta verse, it's like telling them your old world is dying. Please come 222 00:14:54.570 --> 00:14:58.929 with kind of Ye and imagine, like some of these artists have probably spent 223 00:14:58.009 --> 00:15:01.330 their entire adult lives, maybe even part of their childhood, I don't know, 224 00:15:01.929 --> 00:15:07.840 working on these certain strict strategies and tactics that that work for them a 225 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:09.399 little bit. Maybe they're selling prints here and there, maybe they're doing like 226 00:15:09.840 --> 00:15:15.159 a physical, I don't know, like a convention or something, but they're 227 00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:18.120 going to have to relearn all of that and part of the relearning is what 228 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.149 brings on these feelings to having to adapt and change. Like the learning curve 229 00:15:22.230 --> 00:15:26.669 is so big sometimes for some of these things. And Yeah, especially with 230 00:15:26.750 --> 00:15:28.870 the metaverse, I mean it is like all encompassing and eventually it's just going 231 00:15:28.909 --> 00:15:31.909 to be huge. Yeah, it's not. It's not not go. I'm 232 00:15:33.629 --> 00:15:35.820 whatever. It's here to stay. I don't I can't conceive, of having 233 00:15:35.980 --> 00:15:39.700 seen what we've seen in the past even six months, that anybody that can 234 00:15:39.820 --> 00:15:46.340 comprehend what we've seen would even think that it was going away. It's funny 235 00:15:46.379 --> 00:15:48.379 too, because I've never really thought that crypto was used for crime, any 236 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.490 more than regular money was used for crime. So who those those concepts that 237 00:15:52.610 --> 00:15:56.370 I often run into, weird concepts when I try on board people into the 238 00:15:56.409 --> 00:16:02.009 art space, and it's the resistance because Crypto to begin with. They go 239 00:16:02.250 --> 00:16:04.360 way back to like five steps ago, and I have a hard time backing 240 00:16:04.440 --> 00:16:08.720 up to address that point. But yeah, we have to address all the 241 00:16:08.759 --> 00:16:12.960 points to the new folks coming in. What are some of the primary arguments 242 00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:18.360 that you've heard? Well, a lot of people it's the right click save 243 00:16:18.480 --> 00:16:21.750 crowd it's the that's stupid. Why are you just saving a piece of a 244 00:16:22.149 --> 00:16:26.590 JPEG effectively? And Fortunately, most of the folks I know that I have 245 00:16:26.750 --> 00:16:32.269 real world conversations with are from the music industry, so they understand royalties and 246 00:16:32.509 --> 00:16:33.899 copyright in that sort of thing. So all I have to do to say 247 00:16:33.940 --> 00:16:37.740 to them is like, you are locking it into an infinite time capsule. 248 00:16:38.059 --> 00:16:41.059 You will always get which is so cool. It is so cool. I 249 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:45.220 don't like imagine, frankly. I just think a couple months from now, 250 00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.769 a year from now or something, everything we post on instagram and facebook and 251 00:16:48.809 --> 00:16:55.450 twitter could potentially just automatically become an nft. I think so too. That's 252 00:16:55.490 --> 00:16:57.610 when we're yeah, that's when the fun begins. That's since we'll see a 253 00:16:57.690 --> 00:17:03.080 chain of possession and custody all the way to the origin and the genesis of 254 00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:07.039 everything. That would be awesome and then we could just move on to the 255 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:10.680 more important things. Once we don't really care anymore about who owns what or 256 00:17:10.759 --> 00:17:12.759 did what, unless crime occurs, and then we'll be able to point it 257 00:17:12.839 --> 00:17:17.789 out. I also think while there is a lot of I mean scams and 258 00:17:17.869 --> 00:17:21.869 stuff, there's also more transparency. I mean you can see people's wallets, 259 00:17:21.910 --> 00:17:25.109 true, while it transactions from, you know, from the very beginning. 260 00:17:25.869 --> 00:17:29.750 So that's we're able to catch people easier in different ways. Like you know, 261 00:17:29.829 --> 00:17:33.019 there was that I don't know if you saw that, but there was 262 00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:36.579 that seventeen year old recently that stole like, I don't know, three hundred 263 00:17:36.579 --> 00:17:41.980 K or something in Crypto in like multiple discords and then came out it admitted 264 00:17:41.019 --> 00:17:45.849 it, literally admitted it. Yeah, that wholefully, but they were able 265 00:17:45.849 --> 00:17:48.650 to figure out who he was regardless, because they tracked his wallet and so 266 00:17:48.930 --> 00:17:51.450 they, you know, the community back Tom into a corner kind of was 267 00:17:51.490 --> 00:17:53.410 like Hey, what the hell, and he came out and was like I'm 268 00:17:53.490 --> 00:17:57.329 sorry. So you know, it's it'll police itself at a point too, 269 00:17:57.369 --> 00:18:02.000 because people aren't going to want to have their stuff stolen. So agreed, 270 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:06.160 and it's so transparent. Yeah, the the point I was maddening. I 271 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:10.000 got into it with an older gentleman. I'm an older gentleman, he was 272 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:15.710 older than me, and he was like, well, what if they download 273 00:18:15.789 --> 00:18:18.750 someone's Jpeg and put it up as their own? I'm like, Dude, 274 00:18:18.750 --> 00:18:22.309 dude, back up, that is fraud committed in the real world. You're 275 00:18:22.309 --> 00:18:26.190 talking about fraud committed in the real world being brought into the blockchain. So 276 00:18:26.349 --> 00:18:30.460 think about this. If you brought for Aud into the blockchain, the moment 277 00:18:30.539 --> 00:18:33.740 you brought it into the blockchain, we're watching you. We can see every 278 00:18:33.819 --> 00:18:37.859 fraudulent activity. So that point, from the blockchain on, could be unwound. 279 00:18:38.940 --> 00:18:44.049 Right. So yeah, I mean go ahead. And it even makes 280 00:18:44.089 --> 00:18:45.450 me wonder. Like recently, I think, somebody had a couple of their 281 00:18:45.490 --> 00:18:48.089 crypto punk stolen or something. And Yeah, so, I mean the whole 282 00:18:48.089 --> 00:18:53.250 community was watching the transactions as somebody else bought them. And so if you're 283 00:18:53.289 --> 00:18:57.839 buying stolen property, I don't know, like it makes me wonder how it's 284 00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.160 going to eventually affect the court system and stuff too. Over and again you'll 285 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:04.119 catch people, people who are buying it. If to be these cameras are 286 00:19:04.119 --> 00:19:07.880 gonna have trouble selling these things. Eventually, yeah, they won't be able 287 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.589 to sell them and eventually we'll be able to find out who the people are 288 00:19:11.630 --> 00:19:14.509 behind those wallets. I mean they are anonymous for now, but they can 289 00:19:14.549 --> 00:19:17.150 be found out. Just like anything else. If you operate in the real 290 00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:21.509 world, somehow the law can come find you through subpoenas and warrants and things 291 00:19:21.549 --> 00:19:23.230 like that. So, yeah, it just gets back to like there's going 292 00:19:23.269 --> 00:19:29.619 to be ten percent criminals everywhere we go. So' that's kind of the biggest 293 00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:32.619 push back. And then the other thing is the construct of believing that Krypto 294 00:19:32.819 --> 00:19:37.259 was money to begin with and then you're going to buy fake art with fake 295 00:19:37.420 --> 00:19:41.650 money. Some people just have a hard time getting out of their heads. 296 00:19:41.769 --> 00:19:45.210 They're just so intra going to work and cash in their lowly paycheck and just 297 00:19:45.690 --> 00:19:51.569 struggling and being mad and like Whoa, we don't have to there's an option 298 00:19:51.690 --> 00:19:55.160 that. Well, there's also, you know, I don't mean to bring 299 00:19:55.160 --> 00:19:59.039 up the whole like capitalism and politics off. Please do we are treating for 300 00:19:59.160 --> 00:20:03.200 me. Yeah, I love this. I'm pretty socialist. Just to be 301 00:20:03.319 --> 00:20:06.920 blunt, I'm we're going, and I mean pretty much everyone here is but 302 00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.190 yeah, which is you know, anarchy and socialism are like two sides of 303 00:20:11.230 --> 00:20:12.630 the same coin in a weird way. Really, they really are. Yeah, 304 00:20:12.630 --> 00:20:17.109 yeah, I've explained to my audience my type of anarchism to it just 305 00:20:17.230 --> 00:20:19.150 without rulers. I don't think we need rulers. It's not right, it's 306 00:20:19.190 --> 00:20:25.539 not crime and mayhem. It's no not having rulers exactly. I think personal 307 00:20:25.579 --> 00:20:27.700 freedom is really important. That's why I believe. But I believe as well. 308 00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:32.619 It's same thing and for me like, Oh my God, I lost 309 00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:34.970 my train of thought. It's I had such a good idea. Oh okay, 310 00:20:36.049 --> 00:20:40.210 so capitalism has trained us from a young age to work like we are 311 00:20:40.329 --> 00:20:44.369 literally really trained to be like, I don't know, like little machines, 312 00:20:45.049 --> 00:20:48.210 and people will lose their jobs or quit their jobs or whatever, and there's 313 00:20:48.210 --> 00:20:51.920 like not only a stigma that's negative, we have to untrain ourselves out of 314 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:55.480 these habits, and so I just feel like there's a lot of pushback and 315 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:57.839 fear with that. To like the idea of financial freedom. Everyone wants it, 316 00:21:00.000 --> 00:21:02.559 but when people have it sometimes I feel like they don't know what to 317 00:21:02.599 --> 00:21:04.509 do with it and they're scared of it. In a really weird way, 318 00:21:04.589 --> 00:21:07.670 just because they haven't been taught that that's okay. Yeah, for sure, 319 00:21:08.190 --> 00:21:11.150 but when you have that much power I have, I mean I literally go 320 00:21:11.309 --> 00:21:15.549 to sleep with freaking affirmations to try to unwind all the crap that I was 321 00:21:15.630 --> 00:21:19.779 taught as a child about things like money and and wealth and abundance, because 322 00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:25.019 it right, it gets in you. And I'm definitely of a generation like 323 00:21:25.140 --> 00:21:27.059 generation x. We are fucking you got to get up, you gotta have 324 00:21:27.099 --> 00:21:30.740 a job, you got to go to work, and I freak out when 325 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:33.369 I see people not doing that, and then I just have to realize, 326 00:21:33.410 --> 00:21:34.609 like, oh, it's new, I don't have to do it either. 327 00:21:36.410 --> 00:21:38.450 And this is the cool part about this, because a lot of the folks 328 00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:45.130 who hear this also suffer from mental illnesses and disorders and things like that and 329 00:21:45.410 --> 00:21:48.759 may or may not be generally misaligned with their life. They feel miserable because 330 00:21:48.759 --> 00:21:52.480 they have to go do things they don't want to do, and I'm a 331 00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:56.279 big proponent of this idea that a lot of the mental disorders we encounter are 332 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.279 because we're simply being forced to live in a capitalist society and act like a 333 00:22:00.359 --> 00:22:04.589 rat in a maze when you know we'd be much better off in ancient times. 334 00:22:06.750 --> 00:22:10.390 Well, and so working as a vocation, every abilitation counselor, which 335 00:22:10.430 --> 00:22:14.670 means I'm somebody that helps people with mental health challenges, fine work. Capitalism 336 00:22:14.789 --> 00:22:18.220 is hard, like it's really hard and no one wants to talk about how 337 00:22:18.339 --> 00:22:21.220 hard it is. For sure you feel it too when you move to some 338 00:22:21.339 --> 00:22:26.420 place slower, because I've lived in downtown SF like the tenderloin and the financial 339 00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:30.130 center in that area. You have to grind to live in downtown Los Angeles. 340 00:22:30.250 --> 00:22:33.849 On the Hollywood same thing I didn't realize was I was in it and 341 00:22:33.930 --> 00:22:36.289 I was wondering why my blood press, who was going up? I always 342 00:22:36.329 --> 00:22:40.490 felt anxious, just felt pressured right. Well, I got to the swamps 343 00:22:40.529 --> 00:22:44.680 of Louisiana on wound after about a year and realize like, Oh, there's 344 00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.880 no grind here, nobody cares if I don't do anything. So that was 345 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.079 really interesting contrast and I think that kind of goes back to finding things that 346 00:22:52.200 --> 00:22:56.720 we can align with and, if not, to say in that every artist 347 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.710 I know is mentally ill, but I know a lot of people who are 348 00:22:59.789 --> 00:23:04.829 creative that suffer because they're not connected with their creative output. Absolutely, we're 349 00:23:04.869 --> 00:23:08.670 taught to stifle it again from a really young age. Yeah, straight up. 350 00:23:08.710 --> 00:23:12.819 And you know what's what was really fascinating to me is how adults like. 351 00:23:14.220 --> 00:23:17.539 We have gyms and stuff, but I've thought about like how helpful and 352 00:23:17.579 --> 00:23:21.619 beneficial would it be for adults to play on playgrounds, to like promote creative 353 00:23:21.660 --> 00:23:23.420 play as an adult? Oh yeah, because no one ever talks about that. 354 00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:27.130 It's also stigmatized, but I think it could really open up some creative 355 00:23:27.329 --> 00:23:32.170 process for a lot of people to just let loose in that way. I'd 356 00:23:32.210 --> 00:23:34.490 be interesting study. I thought about it. Oh my goodness, so you're 357 00:23:34.529 --> 00:23:38.450 speaking my language. All the money I make, if I ever make any 358 00:23:38.490 --> 00:23:44.079 money from NFT's, is going to a nonprofit I'm putting together now called Emo 359 00:23:44.200 --> 00:23:48.440 Dojo, and it's going to be a creative studio where, since I'm a 360 00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:51.319 drummer, I my first thing was going to be like a rage room, 361 00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:55.710 but with drums, so just less to clean up. But then right, 362 00:23:55.789 --> 00:23:59.509 well, if it's drums, why not a giant art room with paints and 363 00:23:59.710 --> 00:24:00.509 things like that? And then I'm like, Oh yeah, and of course 364 00:24:00.549 --> 00:24:03.829 a digital space. So yeah, emo Dojo's just going to be at art 365 00:24:03.869 --> 00:24:10.500 studio for both music and, you know, traditional art. They love the 366 00:24:10.579 --> 00:24:15.019 idea. There's got to be ways again for adults to incorporate creativity and other 367 00:24:15.059 --> 00:24:18.019 daily life just to make it normal. Yeah, hang out and go play 368 00:24:18.059 --> 00:24:22.019 with each other. Well, and and it would make better people, better 369 00:24:22.140 --> 00:24:25.049 workers in a capitalist society any way, to promote play, because they'd be 370 00:24:25.089 --> 00:24:29.890 happier and they'd be more like willing to do it. There's just our whole 371 00:24:29.970 --> 00:24:33.410 system is just so it's so broken. Yeah, yeah, it sounded like 372 00:24:33.450 --> 00:24:37.930 a good idea. It's definitely getting off the tracks on too many people are 373 00:24:37.130 --> 00:24:41.759 suffering that don't need to be. That's too much. So another go ahead. 374 00:24:41.799 --> 00:24:45.279 Sorry, sorry, I was just going to say another thing in my 375 00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:52.670 master's program that really fascinated me. It fascinated me was learning about how much 376 00:24:52.670 --> 00:25:00.349 narcissism is in positions of power. Oh Yeah, so in our society we 377 00:25:00.430 --> 00:25:06.910 also promote narcissism and sociopathic tendencies into positions of power and management positions, and 378 00:25:06.990 --> 00:25:10.180 that's also, I believe, what causes a lot of the anxiety and stress. 379 00:25:11.380 --> 00:25:14.059 Oh, we don't sure. Yeah, don't shame it. We companies 380 00:25:14.099 --> 00:25:18.259 will literally go after people and have these attributes to make them leaders good. 381 00:25:18.380 --> 00:25:22.009 It's unfortunate, so miserable too. And they run and they just run around 382 00:25:22.009 --> 00:25:26.369 gas lighting everybody, trying to make everybody feel small, all the way up 383 00:25:26.410 --> 00:25:29.970 to the highest levels of our government, but even to the lowest levels at 384 00:25:30.009 --> 00:25:33.329 small companies, because we see it through the media that narcissistic being rewarded. 385 00:25:33.809 --> 00:25:37.599 It makes it tough for like absolute, quote Unquote, good folks to win. 386 00:25:38.839 --> 00:25:42.480 Yeah, and it demoralizes everyone else under them. They don't want to 387 00:25:42.519 --> 00:25:45.640 work for that. Yeah, and they don't want to become that either. 388 00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:52.069 Right, they don't. That sucks. You are listening to epic thundercat in 389 00:25:52.190 --> 00:25:57.269 the EMO dojoe with Johnny emotions. Let's some. So we haven't mentioned really 390 00:25:57.309 --> 00:26:00.710 your art much at all. I want to promote like your art, especially 391 00:26:00.710 --> 00:26:04.940 because so you've got a great background and you're given it. You're all with 392 00:26:06.140 --> 00:26:11.539 credentials back to the mental health community, but your art project is exceptional. 393 00:26:11.619 --> 00:26:14.660 That's kind of what caught my eye. Originally, I've been into art since 394 00:26:14.700 --> 00:26:17.180 I was little. I was one of those little gifted kids they sent to 395 00:26:17.259 --> 00:26:22.609 the ballet and the museums instead of school, and well, eventually I flamed 396 00:26:22.650 --> 00:26:23.809 out like a fourteen. I'm like see, you got to get out of 397 00:26:23.809 --> 00:26:27.769 here. Go Do my drugs. But your art is something else. Get 398 00:26:27.809 --> 00:26:33.319 those tons of profile pic or PFP projects, as they call them in the 399 00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.680 space. Sometimes I'll explain the lingo to the mental health audience. They don't 400 00:26:37.680 --> 00:26:41.720 know what the Hell I'm saying sometimes. So right, but your artwork is 401 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.039 extraordinary, like this audience. You guys, whoever's listening right now, you 402 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.710 have to go check into this project. So I'll point the way and then 403 00:26:48.750 --> 00:26:52.509 I'll let's keep talking. So if you're listening and you want to go look 404 00:26:52.549 --> 00:27:00.190 at what we're talking about, just start at epic thundercatcom. So that'll take 405 00:27:00.230 --> 00:27:03.579 you. What kind of call you anyway? EPIC thundercat. Yeah, that's 406 00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:07.460 my screen name. Yeah, of course, and so also to explain that 407 00:27:07.380 --> 00:27:11.339 everybody in the nft space uses their screen name. It's just the way it 408 00:27:11.380 --> 00:27:15.210 works and I always respect people's wishes to do whatever the hell they wish. 409 00:27:15.210 --> 00:27:18.369 So I'm just going to call you epic thundercat to the Listener, to you 410 00:27:18.450 --> 00:27:22.809 guys listening. Yeah, yeah, go to epic thundercatcom and check out some 411 00:27:22.970 --> 00:27:27.009 of the stuff we're about to be talking about. Okay, cool. Just 412 00:27:27.130 --> 00:27:30.000 so they understand too, part of the reason I personally use a user name 413 00:27:30.119 --> 00:27:34.559 is also because I have clients. It's just better etiquette, yeah, to 414 00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:38.640 keep my work life and my nft life separate. I wrestle with that a 415 00:27:38.759 --> 00:27:42.079 lot because I've been doing mental health podcast for a long time, like and, 416 00:27:42.279 --> 00:27:45.430 like I said, it used to be called bipolar style, so there's 417 00:27:45.470 --> 00:27:48.789 no way I was going to associate that with my real identity. So yeah, 418 00:27:48.990 --> 00:27:52.430 they they know. I mean kind of, because I go back and 419 00:27:52.549 --> 00:27:56.150 forth with this particular audience. I think that's the only audience like my family. 420 00:27:56.309 --> 00:27:59.619 They don't care. They know me work life, every city I've moved 421 00:27:59.660 --> 00:28:03.619 to, they're like who is this Weirdo? Yeah, I think it's fun 422 00:28:03.779 --> 00:28:07.539 on it. Nowadays it's almost like kind of expected, like if you went 423 00:28:07.579 --> 00:28:11.740 into the NDFT space with your real name, you'd be like who's this guy? 424 00:28:11.180 --> 00:28:12.930 Like, what do you do? Be Kind of weird, right, 425 00:28:14.410 --> 00:28:17.849 I'm I'm started to do it because it is kind of weird. Specifically, 426 00:28:17.970 --> 00:28:22.130 like this whole time people using their real pictures on Linkedin and everything. I 427 00:28:22.690 --> 00:28:26.569 was shown up with the Dorky picture, but now everyone's using dorky pictures. 428 00:28:26.609 --> 00:28:27.799 I'm like Hey, I'm going to go the opposite. I'M gonna go put 429 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:32.319 my real picture up on one of these accounts. But for the PODCAST, 430 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:34.519 though, I think it helps that people see that I'm a real human so 431 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:37.319 when I have people to be on the show, that makes sense. It's 432 00:28:37.319 --> 00:28:41.309 a real dude. But now I play as that Yin Yang face everywhere else. 433 00:28:41.309 --> 00:28:48.750 Yeah, I mean I've seen more and more people use their profile pictures, 434 00:28:48.789 --> 00:28:52.950 like their board apes and stuff, on Linkedin even yeah, becoming larger. 435 00:28:52.109 --> 00:28:55.589 That's because a lot of celebrities are buying into it and stuff. So 436 00:28:55.859 --> 00:28:59.259 it's a big flex. It's kind of like the online version of buying a 437 00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:03.619 Lamborghinia, I guess it is. That is so true. Yeah, I'll 438 00:29:03.660 --> 00:29:06.099 get there, though, more to my product, I'm not sure if I 439 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:10.289 would buy a because I really am into art for the art sake and personally, 440 00:29:11.609 --> 00:29:12.650 my cut. My audience won't care that I say this, but I 441 00:29:12.769 --> 00:29:17.410 just I think the ape art itself is it's not my speed. It's not 442 00:29:17.529 --> 00:29:19.730 my thing. You know, I thought that at first. I was like, 443 00:29:19.769 --> 00:29:26.640 Oh, these are really like unattractive images, but lately just the environment, 444 00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:30.279 like I'm digging the whole cont because there's two different sides to nfts. 445 00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.240 There's the art side and then there's the profile picture side, and the PFP 446 00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:37.960 side is really more like community centered. So, like when I saw the 447 00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:40.670 recent stuff with them and like the yacht that they went on at all this 448 00:29:40.750 --> 00:29:41.950 fun stuff, I was like, no, actually, seems kind of cool. 449 00:29:42.230 --> 00:29:45.029 I wouldn't mind having one. But where it stands now, I mean 450 00:29:45.069 --> 00:29:49.190 they're going for like a hundred and fifty K and yeah, don't have that 451 00:29:49.309 --> 00:29:52.140 to drop. So yeah, straight up, I mean they very much are 452 00:29:52.259 --> 00:29:56.259 like driving a fancy car out on the road, unless you were somebody that 453 00:29:56.380 --> 00:30:00.819 got in early, which lucky them. But yeah, I'm sure there's not 454 00:30:00.059 --> 00:30:03.980 left at this point. And to that point, I think those would be 455 00:30:03.980 --> 00:30:07.329 the crypto people, the people got into crypto early. But to two our 456 00:30:07.450 --> 00:30:11.369 point, weird, the people getting to as artist, getting into NF to 457 00:30:11.410 --> 00:30:15.890 use early. It's still really really it is still really early. I want 458 00:30:15.890 --> 00:30:19.369 to know about Y art. So how long have you considered yourself an artist? 459 00:30:21.440 --> 00:30:23.519 I have been painting since I was a little kid. I mean since 460 00:30:23.559 --> 00:30:27.960 I could write, I have been painting. It initially started I was drawing, 461 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:30.839 like looney tunes and really cheesy stuff when I was really little and then 462 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:34.160 I got into anime and then I felt too nerdy doing that, so I 463 00:30:34.319 --> 00:30:37.309 tried to get out of it and painted a lot of like monsters and like, 464 00:30:37.710 --> 00:30:41.029 I don't creepy stuff. I like creepy stuff. I like horror. 465 00:30:41.470 --> 00:30:47.029 Started painting that, but it also for so the audience knows, I have 466 00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:49.980 adhd and I have nonverbal turets, which means I have a tick disorder. 467 00:30:51.140 --> 00:30:52.940 It's really the same thing. I just say nonverbal treats so people understand, 468 00:30:52.940 --> 00:30:57.380 but it's called tick disorder and the only time that my body truly feels calm 469 00:30:57.500 --> 00:31:00.500 is when I'm painting. So I learned that at a young age when I 470 00:31:00.539 --> 00:31:03.059 was in class. It would help me focus when my teachers were talking. 471 00:31:04.769 --> 00:31:08.529 So I just developed the skill over time because I've been drawing forever. Yeah, 472 00:31:08.809 --> 00:31:11.849 it's great. Your Work Looks Great. What I see online, I 473 00:31:11.930 --> 00:31:17.049 assume is digital, but it has a very kind of watercolor kind of vibe 474 00:31:17.049 --> 00:31:21.880 to it. Yeah, I started so okay, I've always done watercolor, 475 00:31:21.960 --> 00:31:27.720 initially like regular on canvas, until covid happened and then I ended up trying 476 00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.880 digital. I got an IPAD finally and made the leap towards digital, because 477 00:31:32.279 --> 00:31:36.349 I really struggled with digital initially because it felt very I don't know, I 478 00:31:36.430 --> 00:31:38.430 didn't get into the flow state with it. I just my body. I 479 00:31:38.509 --> 00:31:41.829 couldn't do it. It's like I felt drain staring at the screen. But 480 00:31:41.950 --> 00:31:45.789 I found procreate on the IPAD and it feels so natural and fluid that it's 481 00:31:45.829 --> 00:31:48.980 the only program I've been able to use and I'm super grateful for it. 482 00:31:49.059 --> 00:31:52.019 So I really started digital like, I don't know, a year and a 483 00:31:52.059 --> 00:31:56.420 half ago, two years wow, at the most. Are All of your 484 00:31:56.500 --> 00:32:00.619 nfts that you have up that I can see on these galleries digital? Yeah, 485 00:32:00.740 --> 00:32:04.089 they're digital. And then so when I first started in the NFT space, 486 00:32:04.170 --> 00:32:07.930 I started on this really weird website, which is gone under pretty much 487 00:32:07.930 --> 00:32:09.569 at this point. I don't know if I'd call it a rug pole, 488 00:32:09.690 --> 00:32:13.210 but it was really weird. But I was a Beta artist on there and 489 00:32:13.809 --> 00:32:19.720 initially I grossed forty K in a month, which is it was like mind 490 00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:23.000 blowing and life changing. Holy can imagine. Right, yeah, I was. 491 00:32:23.079 --> 00:32:25.440 I remember that I was like shaking and stuff, and all that stuff 492 00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:30.430 was my actual watercolor work. I had like probably ten years of work on 493 00:32:30.509 --> 00:32:32.789 there, which kind of Bumms me out now just because I wish it was 494 00:32:32.869 --> 00:32:36.670 on like the regular block chains. I didn't know what I was doing in 495 00:32:36.750 --> 00:32:38.549 the beginning. I wasn't as educated. So if I could go back, 496 00:32:38.589 --> 00:32:43.069 I would have started on open sea, but on open see, the stuff 497 00:32:43.069 --> 00:32:45.819 that I have is yeah, it's all digital. I'm looking at the one 498 00:32:45.859 --> 00:32:51.619 you have an object, the fish. I love that one. Which one? 499 00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:53.900 Oh, yeah, yeah, right, I just started on that site. 500 00:32:54.180 --> 00:32:58.180 That couple days ago. Yeah, me too, ever since the name 501 00:32:58.299 --> 00:33:00.529 of the site that I can't pronounce, the hand site, went down. 502 00:33:01.529 --> 00:33:04.490 Yeah, it was all well, I guess it kind of like a lot 503 00:33:04.529 --> 00:33:07.529 of people did the same thing openseas gas prices were too high for our customers 504 00:33:07.569 --> 00:33:13.319 or potential buyers. So we're looking for options and object had the coolest name, 505 00:33:13.319 --> 00:33:16.920 I thought, and straightforward. It has a nice interface too. It 506 00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:22.200 looks. Yeah, really, it's it's nice looking. Yeah. So, 507 00:33:22.319 --> 00:33:23.759 yeah, I started the same thing. So I'm like, I'm all down 508 00:33:23.799 --> 00:33:27.309 with the TESZ for sure. Well, because I have a music background and 509 00:33:27.349 --> 00:33:30.869 I think test will be big moving forward. I know a lot of the 510 00:33:30.910 --> 00:33:35.470 big players in the music world have already plunked down lots of real world money 511 00:33:35.470 --> 00:33:37.869 into that. Really, I actually had. I haven't kept up on the 512 00:33:37.950 --> 00:33:42.059 teszo stuff as much, so I'm still pretty new to it. Yeah, 513 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:45.180 you should get your test name. It's still only whatever tas one time. 514 00:33:45.259 --> 00:33:49.380 Yeah, I wonder are they going to do are drops for that too? 515 00:33:50.500 --> 00:33:52.740 I don't know. I didn't get into it for that, but once I 516 00:33:52.819 --> 00:33:53.859 heard about the air drop, I'm like, well, let me pick up 517 00:33:53.859 --> 00:33:57.930 a couple more of these test names. Just right because of the music space 518 00:33:57.970 --> 00:34:00.009 they and because there's easy like, I don't know, I'm about to get 519 00:34:00.049 --> 00:34:05.490 musical dotes. Nobody bought musical yet and I'm thinking that might be good. 520 00:34:06.609 --> 00:34:08.210 Yeah, anyway. So the test things really cool, but I just meant 521 00:34:08.250 --> 00:34:12.960 to mention that the quality of this, this fish picture here has a kind 522 00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:17.960 of a Yin Yang quality to it. Little balance and the swirlds. Yeah, 523 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:22.800 I've tried to go on Teso's I've done I did. Okay, so 524 00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.949 I have my initial collection, which is like more broad spectrum emotional states, 525 00:34:27.989 --> 00:34:30.670 kind of to bring awareness to emotions and how they impact us and then as 526 00:34:30.710 --> 00:34:34.989 people collect, then when they get enough, and I have that written down. 527 00:34:34.989 --> 00:34:36.869 It's in my life. It's not really a road map. I called 528 00:34:36.909 --> 00:34:38.980 a vision map because I'm an artist, not I like that. I'm not 529 00:34:39.460 --> 00:34:45.300 company, got investor, class person, right, like I there's I feel 530 00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:50.219 like there should be a separation, because people, collectors come in and they're 531 00:34:51.019 --> 00:34:53.690 wanting artist to do the things that these companies do, and when you're one 532 00:34:53.809 --> 00:34:57.730 person doing all of these things, it's not going to be the same experience 533 00:34:57.769 --> 00:35:00.849 as a giant company. It's just going to feel different, and so I 534 00:35:00.329 --> 00:35:04.769 prefer vision map over road map, to separate. I love that. And 535 00:35:05.449 --> 00:35:09.880 it was actually the amount of work you've done on your map monsters of mind. 536 00:35:10.039 --> 00:35:15.519 Let me let me say that more clearly so that the transcription software picks 537 00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:22.789 it up better on your monsters of mind project. So this is super, 538 00:35:22.989 --> 00:35:27.269 super cool and knowing now how much work all of this stuff takes, generally 539 00:35:27.269 --> 00:35:30.349 speaking, you've put an extra amount of work in this. So to the 540 00:35:30.389 --> 00:35:37.099 viewer, what she's developed is almost a serious like a every portrait portrays a 541 00:35:37.179 --> 00:35:42.260 different emotion and if you collect enough emotions, it's game, a fid so 542 00:35:42.380 --> 00:35:45.420 that you can get points. Can I mean that's that's a good start for 543 00:35:45.460 --> 00:35:47.980 the listener, but tell me more about how you game a fide the emotional 544 00:35:49.099 --> 00:35:54.250 set there. So essentially, I thought about how there's so much complexity and 545 00:35:54.329 --> 00:35:58.650 mental illness, right, and that a lot of people, when they get 546 00:35:58.650 --> 00:36:02.489 these diagnosis, they have trouble like understanding the emotions that they're feeling that are 547 00:36:02.570 --> 00:36:07.400 relating to these diagnosis, I guess. And so for me I created it 548 00:36:07.559 --> 00:36:10.639 so that there's like a level one where you have the basic emotional states and 549 00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:15.679 then your air dropped by more basic diagnosis, if you will. Level too. 550 00:36:15.800 --> 00:36:19.389 They're more complex, which the art also got more complex, because I 551 00:36:19.469 --> 00:36:23.469 also knew over time my art would develop and change right normal. So then 552 00:36:23.510 --> 00:36:27.309 the air drops for that are more like personality disorders and things like that that 553 00:36:27.510 --> 00:36:31.900 are a little more intense in the DSM. And then level three, which 554 00:36:31.900 --> 00:36:37.139 will be even more complex. Well, have the air drops, air drops, 555 00:36:37.139 --> 00:36:38.659 by the way, or like free, free pieces that I gift people. 556 00:36:39.699 --> 00:36:45.500 They'll be like that. Kind of story endings and therapy and things like 557 00:36:45.539 --> 00:36:49.570 that. I want to incorporate kind of like, I guess, conceptualized story 558 00:36:49.610 --> 00:36:52.730 endings. So when people collect these, I also when they get their their 559 00:36:52.769 --> 00:36:57.889 air drops, their free ones, I write in what order they got them 560 00:36:57.929 --> 00:37:00.920 in, and I'll write something like you started your life with great sadness, 561 00:37:01.239 --> 00:37:06.840 and I'll go in and explain like the emotions as they collect them and leading 562 00:37:06.880 --> 00:37:12.000 into why I pick the mental illness that they received. That's fantastic. I 563 00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:14.920 love that and it really does kind of I wont say closures that the right 564 00:37:14.960 --> 00:37:16.429 word to use for their but it does bring it full circle. So it 565 00:37:16.510 --> 00:37:21.670 feels like you've completed a mission in that sense and causes you to move forward. 566 00:37:21.670 --> 00:37:24.710 Right. So that way, I mean it's and no one has to 567 00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:29.349 have a diagnosis to play it and they don't really pick the one that they 568 00:37:29.389 --> 00:37:31.980 get. It's just based on the choices that they made, kind of like 569 00:37:32.059 --> 00:37:35.619 a pick your own adventure game. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, that's 570 00:37:35.659 --> 00:37:38.019 so great. You know what I figured out it? I figured it was 571 00:37:38.059 --> 00:37:43.340 a decent way to spread awareness about mental health challenges because, especially, like, 572 00:37:44.059 --> 00:37:45.369 I don't know, I feel like in this space there wasn't a focus 573 00:37:45.449 --> 00:37:49.769 on it initially. There's been a couple projects that have come out since I 574 00:37:50.010 --> 00:37:52.969 started. Lost Boys is one. That's a profile picture one, but as 575 00:37:53.010 --> 00:37:58.920 far as like what I'm doing, I haven't seen anything similar. Personally I 576 00:37:58.960 --> 00:38:02.199 don't see many especially done to this level. Because so what makes yours different 577 00:38:02.239 --> 00:38:07.920 to me for sure, is the amount of artwork you create. You are 578 00:38:07.960 --> 00:38:12.000 a prolific artist. You create so much different kind of artwork. It definitely 579 00:38:12.039 --> 00:38:15.230 have a style and some of these just love to have blown up on the 580 00:38:15.309 --> 00:38:20.110 wall behind me, for example. So I think people you have to do 581 00:38:20.230 --> 00:38:22.150 yourself the favor to go look at all of these things. If you go 582 00:38:22.269 --> 00:38:29.579 to OPENSEE DOT IO collection monsters of mind, you'll see what I'm talking about 583 00:38:29.579 --> 00:38:34.059 right now. And so this is fascinated because you can. So here's another 584 00:38:34.139 --> 00:38:37.300 thing with skeptics, they're like it's all bullshit whatever. Well, if you 585 00:38:37.380 --> 00:38:39.980 go to the website I just mentioned, you can see that they're trading volume 586 00:38:40.059 --> 00:38:45.010 and if you click enough buttons, you can like literally see how much money 587 00:38:45.090 --> 00:38:47.809 can be made from art. And so just suspend belief for a second and 588 00:38:49.010 --> 00:38:52.289 imagine if you can go do your thing, whether it's, you know, 589 00:38:52.570 --> 00:38:57.239 pay to picture, take a photograph, play some music and upload it to 590 00:38:57.360 --> 00:39:01.039 a website like open see, for example, or object then man, you 591 00:39:01.079 --> 00:39:05.559 could actually make some money and it doesn't really cost you much. Talk about 592 00:39:05.599 --> 00:39:07.400 the cost, though. So we talked about the high price of gas. 593 00:39:08.400 --> 00:39:13.949 Did you get started uploading some of these collections, like the monsters of mine, 594 00:39:13.989 --> 00:39:15.630 before gas went up to it cost you? I guess I'm just getting 595 00:39:15.630 --> 00:39:21.710 at how much did it really cost to get the ball rolling for you as 596 00:39:21.750 --> 00:39:24.460 an individual artist? So I think when I did the first one, because 597 00:39:24.460 --> 00:39:28.940 on open see you don't pay to mint. I mean I still paid a 598 00:39:28.940 --> 00:39:31.659 lot in gas in other ways, but when I put a regular listing up 599 00:39:31.940 --> 00:39:37.420 I'm not paying the gas fee the consumers. But the first initial one I 600 00:39:37.460 --> 00:39:40.849 had to pay two hundred dollars. However, if I do an auction, 601 00:39:42.809 --> 00:39:45.329 I have to pay a percentage all of the gas. So I paid. 602 00:39:45.369 --> 00:39:47.610 There's a fee that goes to open see. It's like two point five percent 603 00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:52.530 or something right, and then on top of that there's the gas fees, 604 00:39:52.730 --> 00:39:54.440 which I mean I've seen it as high as like two hundred bucks. It 605 00:39:55.440 --> 00:39:59.719 just depends it. So really what the gas fees are is it depends on 606 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:04.039 how many people are processing a transaction at that time. But there's going to 607 00:40:04.079 --> 00:40:07.710 be a theoreum the second it's gonna be like an upgrade and then eventually the 608 00:40:07.789 --> 00:40:12.590 gas problem will go away. But where we stand now. Unfortunately, it 609 00:40:12.710 --> 00:40:15.550 is a thing, but from what I understand you can ride off the gas 610 00:40:15.670 --> 00:40:19.670 fees on taxes as a loss, so I'm looking into that at least. 611 00:40:19.670 --> 00:40:22.420 Yeah, that's great, and this podcast is coming out the middle of November 612 00:40:22.420 --> 00:40:28.460 right now, and I anticipate level to for theorium should be done by, 613 00:40:28.900 --> 00:40:31.219 you know, first part of the year coming up. So it's yeah, 614 00:40:31.219 --> 00:40:37.170 it's not that far away. And they've got competition like Tezos and Solana breathing 615 00:40:37.250 --> 00:40:42.050 down their neck with much lower gas fees on their platforms. So all signs 616 00:40:42.090 --> 00:40:44.969 are pointing too good. Things like the cost is just going to come down 617 00:40:45.010 --> 00:40:49.090 for people to get into it. Yeah, I've been, I mean I 618 00:40:49.489 --> 00:40:52.719 personally, because the gas fees are so high. A lot of artists will 619 00:40:52.719 --> 00:40:55.639 charge like zero point one, which is like five hundred dollars or something four 620 00:40:55.679 --> 00:41:00.880 hundred right now. I don't something around there. I only charge zero, 621 00:41:00.239 --> 00:41:06.269 zero five. So for me it's like a hundred and eighty ish, depending 622 00:41:06.309 --> 00:41:12.989 on a theoreum, but I've kept my prices pretty low in comparison to other 623 00:41:13.070 --> 00:41:16.389 projects on that change, just because I know that there's again a lot of 624 00:41:16.429 --> 00:41:22.780 people coming into the scene that can't afford to put out a ton of money, 625 00:41:22.820 --> 00:41:24.380 and it's still a lot of money. But another thing that I've thought 626 00:41:24.420 --> 00:41:28.579 about and I've talked about with my community as if we continue to do so 627 00:41:28.780 --> 00:41:31.889 well, I'd really like to put a percentage into some sort of like community 628 00:41:32.170 --> 00:41:36.170 pot, if you will, and then people they are active in the community, 629 00:41:36.170 --> 00:41:37.289 we can have a vote and say, Hey, this person's been here 630 00:41:37.329 --> 00:41:40.530 for x amount of time, we should give this money, we should use 631 00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:45.250 this money towards like getting them a piece of art so that they don't have 632 00:41:45.409 --> 00:41:47.400 they can segue into it without having to pay for it, right if they've 633 00:41:47.440 --> 00:41:51.639 been around. Yeah, for sure there's. In fact, I just did 634 00:41:51.679 --> 00:41:54.840 an interview with the gentleman named Conrad who runs, I guess, a doll, 635 00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:58.199 for lack of a better word. I'm not sure it's officially a doll, 636 00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:05.349 but it's a discord channel server called outcast verse, so outcast versus doing 637 00:42:05.469 --> 00:42:08.190 that. It's kind of the same thing. That's a mental health leaning discord 638 00:42:08.309 --> 00:42:13.309 server where nft artist hang out and I think what they're doing is once a 639 00:42:13.429 --> 00:42:15.900 week they're from. Not sure if it's game, a fight or how. 640 00:42:15.940 --> 00:42:22.099 It's democratically organized, but through the server. They pick one of their artists, 641 00:42:22.260 --> 00:42:24.940 buy a piece of their art and then promote it on twitter and whatnot. 642 00:42:25.739 --> 00:42:30.730 That's nice too. When is it called cast verse? Yeah, okay, 643 00:42:30.809 --> 00:42:32.010 I'll have to look into that. Yeah, they're always all these looks. 644 00:42:32.690 --> 00:42:36.610 There's so many great new projects popping up all the time. It's so 645 00:42:36.809 --> 00:42:38.889 cool. Yeah, right, and was really neat. Is that the art? 646 00:42:38.929 --> 00:42:44.050 Since art is very subjective, it kind of doesn't matter. There's art 647 00:42:44.090 --> 00:42:47.119 for all different types. So when you're into NFT's you don't have to search 648 00:42:47.199 --> 00:42:51.760 by art type. You can search by bye bye, by feel and if 649 00:42:51.800 --> 00:42:55.119 you want to hang out with the investor class and just try to crawl your 650 00:42:55.159 --> 00:42:58.440 way up to get it ape, you can do that. If you want 651 00:42:58.480 --> 00:43:01.869 to support small artist or hang out with people that have other similar mental issues, 652 00:43:02.269 --> 00:43:05.309 you can do that and you feel like you're at home. I think 653 00:43:05.349 --> 00:43:07.710 that's one of the bigger takeaways from all of this is people are finally starting 654 00:43:07.789 --> 00:43:15.179 to find their kind of true tribe or community. Yeah, I think like 655 00:43:15.820 --> 00:43:20.619 my monsters of mine twitter. My pinned post on it right now says not 656 00:43:20.860 --> 00:43:23.579 to mask who you are and just be yourself, because the truth of the 657 00:43:23.619 --> 00:43:28.849 matter is like I mean we're lacking some demographics in the NFT space, this 658 00:43:28.969 --> 00:43:31.530 is true, but eventually this face is going to grow. Just be yourself 659 00:43:31.690 --> 00:43:35.610 and your tribe will happen over time. I mean you, you will find 660 00:43:35.650 --> 00:43:37.929 them, please, people are out there. Yeah, so it. Please 661 00:43:37.969 --> 00:43:40.960 be yourself, because it's just to your point. Like, obviously I'm a 662 00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.000 middle aged white dude. There's plenty of US everywhere, all over the fucking 663 00:43:45.079 --> 00:43:51.320 planet. And kind of depressingly, once this nft take took or took off, 664 00:43:51.360 --> 00:43:53.840 I guess I kind of noticed the same thing. It instantly became like 665 00:43:53.920 --> 00:43:58.630 a mirror of the real world. It's like ninety five percent white guys. 666 00:43:58.710 --> 00:44:01.750 are like, Jeez, I'm glad you're all hiding behind your your PFP's, 667 00:44:01.869 --> 00:44:06.829 because if you weren't, this would look really bad. So, yeah, 668 00:44:06.909 --> 00:44:08.829 it's I wish we were. I mean I wish the blockchain could actually tell 669 00:44:08.869 --> 00:44:12.300 us. Is that's is that another white guy? Is that a white guy 670 00:44:12.340 --> 00:44:15.980 again, something like that. I think, luckily, the again as it 671 00:44:15.099 --> 00:44:19.179 grows, though, because it's really just a matter of reaching those demographics and 672 00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:22.380 figuring out what they need to get involved. Yep, because everyone should have 673 00:44:22.460 --> 00:44:24.969 the ability to have financial freedom at some point. Yeah, I mean really, 674 00:44:25.289 --> 00:44:29.570 and this kind of is as level of entry field, let's call it. 675 00:44:29.690 --> 00:44:32.530 The playing field stills kind of stacked against, you know, newcomers, 676 00:44:32.570 --> 00:44:37.130 let's say. But the entry field is really level. So if you want 677 00:44:37.170 --> 00:44:40.559 to just take off and if you think one type of person or a class 678 00:44:40.559 --> 00:44:45.400 of people has it easier, you could actually be that person in nft world 679 00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:49.920 and try it out for yourself. But to thundercats point, it's just better 680 00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:52.789 to be yourself. It's so much easier and you will find your own tribe 681 00:44:52.789 --> 00:44:58.150 and then you can go create art. It's so, so amazing. Well 682 00:44:58.230 --> 00:45:00.909 on. Another thing I think is really great is I've noticed a lot of 683 00:45:00.989 --> 00:45:04.829 people that didn't used to do art are trying to. They're trying so many 684 00:45:04.869 --> 00:45:07.900 different creative outlets even though they don't know what they're doing, and I think 685 00:45:07.940 --> 00:45:13.340 that is such a beautiful concept. It's really pushing people into this creative zone. 686 00:45:13.340 --> 00:45:15.699 It's like almost like being a kid again. I love it. It's 687 00:45:15.820 --> 00:45:19.659 really cool and newcomers seem, in my mind, my jaded, like long 688 00:45:19.739 --> 00:45:23.570 term marketing mind, newcomers seem to have the advantage. Anytime you get a 689 00:45:23.690 --> 00:45:29.170 giant property, aknown intellectual property, a superstar, if you will, whether 690 00:45:29.210 --> 00:45:34.250 it's a sports hero or music person. Anytime they come into the NFT space, 691 00:45:34.929 --> 00:45:37.840 they don't necessarily succeed. In fact, I don't haven't seen any succeed 692 00:45:37.960 --> 00:45:42.320 yet. That's why a lot of them, I feel like, are going 693 00:45:42.480 --> 00:45:45.400 and buying like board apes and stuff right now, because, I mean, 694 00:45:45.679 --> 00:45:47.400 whenever they try to make own collection is people are like no, thank you, 695 00:45:50.750 --> 00:45:52.710 which is cool though. Yeah, I love that it could go up 696 00:45:52.750 --> 00:45:57.989 and down the whole spectrum that way. Here's a hard question, or tricky 697 00:45:57.989 --> 00:46:00.469 question, because I know of a couple of blind people that listen to the 698 00:46:00.590 --> 00:46:07.260 show. How would you describe your work to a blind person? Let's see, 699 00:46:07.420 --> 00:46:15.820 I would say because, HMM, it's very like messy. Was Structure. 700 00:46:16.940 --> 00:46:21.769 I'd like a lot of texture, like if you could, let's see, 701 00:46:21.769 --> 00:46:25.289 if you could feel it, I feel like it would be very textured. 702 00:46:28.130 --> 00:46:30.610 I don't explained. Do they understood? They do think? Can they 703 00:46:30.889 --> 00:46:35.159 see color, like do they know where they blind from childhood to I'm thinking 704 00:46:35.199 --> 00:46:37.440 of we blind from childhood. But you described it really well in the sense 705 00:46:37.559 --> 00:46:42.239 that if you could feel it instantly, you pulled out the empathy card. 706 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:45.440 Most people wouldn't think that blind people feel their way through lives, but I 707 00:46:45.559 --> 00:46:47.429 like how you just said if you could feel it, it would feel kind 708 00:46:47.469 --> 00:46:51.630 of messy. I feel like it would have a lot, a lot of 709 00:46:51.750 --> 00:46:57.110 messiness, because emotions are messy, they are chaotic and it's okay to have 710 00:46:57.230 --> 00:47:00.949 them be chaotic and I think it would be also like sometimes my art is 711 00:47:00.989 --> 00:47:04.940 kind of spooky to just so they're aware, like sometimes it can be kind 712 00:47:04.980 --> 00:47:09.179 of like a little bit spoky and creepy because from my experience with having mental 713 00:47:09.179 --> 00:47:13.420 illness, like a lot of times this these feelings of happiness and stuff, 714 00:47:13.420 --> 00:47:16.250 they are fleeting, like you have good days, but there's also a lot 715 00:47:16.289 --> 00:47:21.610 of really crappy days. So that's why a lot of my art gears towards 716 00:47:21.690 --> 00:47:24.889 like the darker spectrum as well. It's really Cathartic. I love looking at 717 00:47:24.929 --> 00:47:30.079 it as much as you may have enjoyed creating it. Honestly, I'm a 718 00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.920 big Fan of midnight society, Special Monkey. That one was pretty awesome. 719 00:47:34.880 --> 00:47:37.760 Thank you, and I came up with the Midnight Society because I used to 720 00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.599 really like, are you afraid of the dark? When I was a kid 721 00:47:39.599 --> 00:47:45.789 and I felt like nostalgia is another very important feeling that a lot of people 722 00:47:45.829 --> 00:47:49.429 have. Sorry, my cat's me outing. If you hear anything in the 723 00:47:49.469 --> 00:47:55.349 background. Cute, she keeps bothering me. But yeah, I just felt 724 00:47:55.389 --> 00:48:00.179 like nostalgia is like a really strong, powerful emotion and something kind of fun 725 00:48:00.260 --> 00:48:05.219 too, because you can't always have things be depressing or real. Sometimes you 726 00:48:05.300 --> 00:48:07.980 need to have that selfcare time where things are a little bit like, I 727 00:48:08.019 --> 00:48:13.409 don't know, out there. Yeah, I agree. I mean for sure, 728 00:48:13.409 --> 00:48:15.489 I'm not like coming from a music background. A lot of times to 729 00:48:15.570 --> 00:48:21.250 sad song will come on, you know, a playlist and I'm already in 730 00:48:21.289 --> 00:48:22.210 a sad mood and I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to 731 00:48:22.289 --> 00:48:25.210 go with it, I'm just going to cry out and just let this sad 732 00:48:25.369 --> 00:48:31.639 feeling flow through on Max and yeah, I think it's actually makes life worth 733 00:48:31.719 --> 00:48:37.679 living. In that sense, absolutely, I try really hard with my project 734 00:48:37.719 --> 00:48:40.239 to cater to like when I'm drawing an emotional state, I try really hard 735 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:45.949 to think about the audience that I'm drawing for and what they might be feeling, 736 00:48:45.750 --> 00:48:49.550 which is where a lot of like I get in like a really deep 737 00:48:49.630 --> 00:48:53.309 flow estate and I put myself in these emotions as I'm drawing them. So 738 00:48:54.349 --> 00:48:58.699 that's amazing at me. It's this is the part where I kind of script 739 00:48:58.699 --> 00:49:00.739 because I'm sitting here staring at your drawings while you're telling me this, and 740 00:49:00.780 --> 00:49:06.900 I'm about to fall into a hypnotic state myself. That's so wild. That's 741 00:49:06.900 --> 00:49:08.860 why a lot of the like a lot of them, all of a sudden 742 00:49:08.860 --> 00:49:15.090 started having all these really jumbled lines, and it's just I started getting really 743 00:49:15.170 --> 00:49:17.889 deep into the emotional states of like when I was drawing them, and like 744 00:49:19.210 --> 00:49:22.130 these lines just started appearing. So it's almost like a projection of like, 745 00:49:23.090 --> 00:49:25.960 I don't know, like I want to see like my psyche. I know 746 00:49:27.000 --> 00:49:29.280 how to how to say it, but it's like a projection of like my 747 00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:31.480 mind onto the paper. Yeah, now, that's that's that's a good way 748 00:49:31.519 --> 00:49:34.480 to say it, because I think when I look at that I kind of 749 00:49:34.480 --> 00:49:37.079 get the feeling that you're talking about. If you can, if you could 750 00:49:37.079 --> 00:49:40.190 imagine an emotion, almost therefore one came to you in a vision while you 751 00:49:40.190 --> 00:49:44.510 were sleeping or something. This is kind of like the Phantom like look. 752 00:49:44.550 --> 00:49:47.230 I would imagine. They look like sort of like a cartoon, sort of 753 00:49:47.309 --> 00:49:51.869 creepy, but friendly. Yeah, it's kind of a good, nice duality 754 00:49:51.949 --> 00:49:57.019 to it all. Yeah, I try to make it a lot of different 755 00:49:57.059 --> 00:49:59.659 feelings at once, I think a lot of the time. But I will 756 00:49:59.699 --> 00:50:01.579 say a lot of the things, because a lot of my underlying mental health 757 00:50:01.579 --> 00:50:06.019 stuff is also anxiety related. Yeah, so I feel like a lot of 758 00:50:06.099 --> 00:50:08.489 that comes out with all of them. I can't really help it. It's 759 00:50:08.530 --> 00:50:12.250 just part of me. But what of the one of the neat things about 760 00:50:12.409 --> 00:50:17.170 digital art is the added element of movements, and I noticed some of these 761 00:50:17.289 --> 00:50:22.960 have like a that glitch effect which really drives the picture home because it's already 762 00:50:23.000 --> 00:50:27.639 has that, like said, like a messy feel, like a busy vibe, 763 00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:30.039 and then the glitch just takes it over. And I'm a huge fan 764 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:34.320 of color. So in all that we've talked about, I don't think we've 765 00:50:34.320 --> 00:50:37.550 mentioned color, but all of your stuff is very colorful, even though it 766 00:50:37.590 --> 00:50:42.269 might be dark or slightly creepy, sometimes it's super colorful and it's oddly enough, 767 00:50:42.829 --> 00:50:45.869 I've always done that, even when, even if my water color, 768 00:50:45.469 --> 00:50:49.630 for some reason my art's always been subtly creepy. Don't know what. Well, 769 00:50:49.670 --> 00:50:52.980 at least since I started drawing, monsters just kind of happened. Yeah, 770 00:50:52.059 --> 00:50:57.980 but we've always been colorful monsters. They've always been I kind of I 771 00:50:58.300 --> 00:51:01.260 don't know, like I want them to have like color splash but also be 772 00:51:01.420 --> 00:51:06.769 slightly unnerving, kind of like a mix of both. So it's almost confusing. 773 00:51:06.809 --> 00:51:10.289 Yeah, that's I love that and it's a great, like I said, 774 00:51:10.289 --> 00:51:15.530 a duality. It's it's the smooth and the pleasantness of the color and 775 00:51:15.650 --> 00:51:20.280 then you're drawn in by the squiggles and such. And I've been trying to 776 00:51:20.320 --> 00:51:24.519 animate more to you. I had a request in my inbox asking me specifically 777 00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:30.760 for more animated pieces, because I think people are wanting to get like animated 778 00:51:30.800 --> 00:51:34.590 picture frames. It's becoming more and more popular. HM, so I've been 779 00:51:34.630 --> 00:51:39.030 trying to go through and make sure that everything is animated lately. I love 780 00:51:39.150 --> 00:51:43.030 this. I could sit and look at your heart all day. Nervousness. 781 00:51:43.110 --> 00:51:47.780 Three is amazing. Thank you. So I think I might the one that's 782 00:51:49.219 --> 00:51:51.500 lowest on the floor right now. I might buy it up. I think 783 00:51:51.500 --> 00:51:54.139 I'm going to buy it and change the Metadata so it's moving and then use 784 00:51:54.179 --> 00:51:58.300 it as a giveaway here soon. Well, that's a whole other show. 785 00:51:59.099 --> 00:52:01.530 In fact, could you come back like a couple of months so we can 786 00:52:01.610 --> 00:52:05.610 check in on you? I think you'll probably be rich and famous and retired 787 00:52:05.650 --> 00:52:09.369 from your day job by then, maybe, although I might still work my 788 00:52:09.409 --> 00:52:13.690 day job. I love helping people, just to keep it open. Yeah, 789 00:52:13.809 --> 00:52:16.119 for sure, that you know, and helping people's a lot of my 790 00:52:16.159 --> 00:52:20.880 inspiration for what I'm doing right now. So, yeah, you could tell 791 00:52:21.159 --> 00:52:23.920 well, and a lot of people mean well, but you actually have artistic 792 00:52:24.000 --> 00:52:29.679 talent that really superpowers your effort, I think, and that mean you know, 793 00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:32.389 I mean you're you do it with people a lot that have mental problems 794 00:52:32.429 --> 00:52:35.949 and a lot of those people mean really well and they just haven't connected in 795 00:52:36.030 --> 00:52:38.510 life because they don't have a thing. Your art is definitely your thing. 796 00:52:38.630 --> 00:52:45.380 This is amazing. I had someone tell me a couple times that they have 797 00:52:45.500 --> 00:52:52.579 autism and they told me that my art help them understand emotions in a different 798 00:52:52.619 --> 00:52:57.340 way because they struggle with it. Yeah, and I felt personally like that 799 00:52:57.500 --> 00:53:01.170 was really moving to hear because it's not something that I had personally thought about, 800 00:53:01.369 --> 00:53:06.170 but I just to really appreciate it that. I thought it was really 801 00:53:06.210 --> 00:53:08.409 sweet. Yeah, that is sweet and they've got an excellent point. Because 802 00:53:08.449 --> 00:53:14.559 a lot of time if you're on the spectrum, you can't necessarily read faces 803 00:53:14.599 --> 00:53:19.639 or you can't read subtle signs, and you're all right, is more intense 804 00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:22.079 than subtle, I guess it is a good way to put it. Like 805 00:53:22.199 --> 00:53:24.760 it takes the emotion that would be just a subtle emotion and shows you the 806 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:29.949 real depth of the intensity of what that emotion can actually be like for the 807 00:53:30.230 --> 00:53:32.869 for the person feeling it, right through colors and stuff. You know, 808 00:53:32.909 --> 00:53:37.590 I was thinking there's a term for people that see emotions as colors. Yeah, 809 00:53:37.789 --> 00:53:42.900 and I think I like cinnastasia or something like that. I'm pretty sure 810 00:53:42.940 --> 00:53:45.619 I have that. Oh, I don't know that. I don't have it 811 00:53:45.699 --> 00:53:51.420 with numbers and letters, but but emotions and other things like definitely have color. 812 00:53:52.780 --> 00:53:57.329 Is it hard to balance your artistic side with the more logical side that's 813 00:53:57.409 --> 00:54:01.090 required to put together a community and the the gamification part of your project and 814 00:54:01.170 --> 00:54:06.010 all that? You know, not really. Oddly enough, I feel like 815 00:54:06.449 --> 00:54:12.599 the NFT space is so new that the creativity's endless, and that's part of 816 00:54:12.679 --> 00:54:15.159 what I love so much about it. It's you know, when I first 817 00:54:15.440 --> 00:54:19.159 started I was really nervous and I was kind of like. It almost felt 818 00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:22.159 directionless because I was like I don't know what I'm doing. I would ask 819 00:54:22.199 --> 00:54:24.670 people for advice and be like Hey, what should I do, and people 820 00:54:24.670 --> 00:54:28.150 would be like just do whatever you want. I'm like, UM, too 821 00:54:28.269 --> 00:54:31.510 vague. I can't want too many things. I know that feeling right. 822 00:54:31.869 --> 00:54:37.510 So I just started hearing people's opinions and taking them kind of a grain of 823 00:54:37.590 --> 00:54:40.820 salt, but also applying like aspects of them, and that's how this happened. 824 00:54:40.820 --> 00:54:44.380 I really think a lot of it is just treating people like people, 825 00:54:44.739 --> 00:54:49.659 hearing the collectors and their needs and applying them. And it's really that simple. 826 00:54:49.659 --> 00:54:52.820 I mean I've had a lot of people recently ask me how to how 827 00:54:52.889 --> 00:54:57.250 did you make a successful project, and it's just hearing people. They're just 828 00:54:57.369 --> 00:55:00.090 people. Make friends. Yeah, and listening around. Well, you're a 829 00:55:00.170 --> 00:55:04.489 trained listener, like if you work in that space, you you have training 830 00:55:04.650 --> 00:55:07.280 and practice listening to people. So that's a big plus. Anybody could do 831 00:55:07.280 --> 00:55:10.480 it, but it takes it does take a lot of practice, that is 832 00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:15.760 true. Yeah, it can be more difficult, especially to understand like the 833 00:55:15.800 --> 00:55:20.679 underlying feelings of when somebody saying something. Yeah, that's great, I'm one. 834 00:55:20.719 --> 00:55:23.469 They might be saying one thing but needing another thing. It happens a 835 00:55:23.510 --> 00:55:27.190 lot with people most of the time. Yeah, or just because of the 836 00:55:27.269 --> 00:55:29.869 way they're raised, if they were raised by narcissists, they tend to, 837 00:55:30.909 --> 00:55:32.869 you know, walk on eggshells and not say what they mean. Oh my 838 00:55:32.989 --> 00:55:36.340 God, it tries me crazy. When I'm around people I could tell they've 839 00:55:36.380 --> 00:55:39.420 been raised by narcissist because they have this kind of oblique way of asking for 840 00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:45.260 things because they don't want to impose, but they need something done. Yeah, 841 00:55:45.300 --> 00:55:47.539 they have to learn how to find their voice a lot of the time, 842 00:55:47.579 --> 00:55:51.969 which is a process in itself and often takes a lot of therapy. 843 00:55:52.010 --> 00:55:53.489 Yeah, for sure. Well, I'm glad you're in this space, for 844 00:55:53.610 --> 00:55:59.690 sure, and you're doing really well with your art and you clearly are giving 845 00:55:59.809 --> 00:56:02.449 back with your skill and you're training in the mental health space. So so 846 00:56:04.360 --> 00:56:07.719 much of that is needed all around the country in the world. So I 847 00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:12.119 can't thank you enough. It's you know, how do you thank somebody for 848 00:56:12.519 --> 00:56:16.679 doing things that are just so necessity in modern life? Thank you, I 849 00:56:16.760 --> 00:56:20.869 appreciate it. I I won't be going anywhere. I'll be here forever. 850 00:56:20.949 --> 00:56:24.190 I am a forlifer for sure. So, yeah, I've done the road. 851 00:56:24.190 --> 00:56:28.150 I'll still be here doing something. That's the really cool thing that I 852 00:56:28.269 --> 00:56:32.019 found about artist in the NFT space versus projects or companies, is that the 853 00:56:32.059 --> 00:56:37.059 artist was making art long before and ifts were around and they will keep making 854 00:56:37.139 --> 00:56:38.820 art. So invest in artist, you know. I mean it's fun if 855 00:56:38.820 --> 00:56:43.579 you're an investor, to take your crypto and play the PFP game, for 856 00:56:43.699 --> 00:56:49.090 sure, but also like check out actual art and if you're selling like that's 857 00:56:49.650 --> 00:56:52.489 back to what I was saying earlier. That's really what caught my eye first 858 00:56:52.650 --> 00:56:54.690 was your art. I saw your art first and then I read how cool 859 00:56:54.730 --> 00:57:00.610 your project was. So if your art wasn't popping, I wouldn't have read 860 00:57:00.690 --> 00:57:02.840 further. So, yeah, it takes a lot of different moving parts to 861 00:57:02.920 --> 00:57:07.679 make a successful project, but I think you're just great proof that people can 862 00:57:07.800 --> 00:57:12.719 do it and it's a real thing and if anybody wants to look at your 863 00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:15.750 work, they'll. They have to do is go to your website and check 864 00:57:15.750 --> 00:57:20.030 it out. Tell me what do you want to share? Anything else and 865 00:57:20.349 --> 00:57:24.510 you is there a best way for people to dive into your world? Um, 866 00:57:24.710 --> 00:57:28.949 I think just starting with my website and then going to my monsters in 867 00:57:29.030 --> 00:57:30.940 mind. Thing works to you, although I think also my open sea has 868 00:57:30.980 --> 00:57:36.980 a discord link. My discord is actually probably the start, the best number 869 00:57:36.980 --> 00:57:39.579 one point, because that's where we do all of like the events and games 870 00:57:39.619 --> 00:57:44.690 and things like that, and once we hit thirty etherium volume here soon. 871 00:57:44.769 --> 00:57:47.570 Last time we did a game or a game event. It was like a 872 00:57:47.650 --> 00:57:52.010 party really, and the MODS and myself we had like actual games in like 873 00:57:52.489 --> 00:57:57.250 it was all verbal. We were actually talking over the voice chat and played 874 00:57:57.250 --> 00:58:00.760 a bunch of things and then I handed out like twelve free pieces of art. 875 00:58:01.320 --> 00:58:05.360 That was like center bucks and gas fees, but we were it. 876 00:58:05.760 --> 00:58:07.880 Yeah, yeah, it was expensive, but you know, it's just part 877 00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:10.079 of giving back. I mean, I'm getting all this money from people. 878 00:58:10.079 --> 00:58:14.190 I need to make sure that their money is well spent. So it's a 879 00:58:14.230 --> 00:58:17.550 great reinmus for sure, right, and that's again it's all open ended. 880 00:58:17.590 --> 00:58:22.710 That's why it's so fun. We can just do whatever we want. Is 881 00:58:22.750 --> 00:58:24.949 a community. It's great. That is a weird thing about whenever you make 882 00:58:25.150 --> 00:58:31.539 any crypto money, it's like yeah, okay, because I suspend belief to 883 00:58:31.699 --> 00:58:36.059 play Crypto and then when I make money I kind of suspend belief backward. 884 00:58:36.139 --> 00:58:38.219 They can. That's not actually real money. Just leave it there. Play 885 00:58:38.300 --> 00:58:42.690 with this week. It's like monopoly money, but not. Yeah, because 886 00:58:42.730 --> 00:58:44.250 you don't. I'm like. I'm like, well, I don't want to 887 00:58:44.250 --> 00:58:46.050 convert it yet. I don't really have anything I need to buy this week 888 00:58:46.090 --> 00:58:49.769 or anything, so I'll just play it. and You keep doing that time 889 00:58:49.849 --> 00:58:52.010 and time again, and then it grows and grows and rows. Like what 890 00:58:52.849 --> 00:58:55.159 now? So I can only imagine the future when you have enough money to 891 00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:59.000 just like yeah, I want to buy a castle. Hmm, is now 892 00:58:59.119 --> 00:59:01.239 the day to buy that castle? I don't know. Well, I just 893 00:59:01.800 --> 00:59:07.440 even tonight I finally made the leap into a profile picture project which I had 894 00:59:07.480 --> 00:59:10.710 been debating for a long time, the gutter cats gang. Who that's and 895 00:59:10.789 --> 00:59:15.550 that was what that's exciting. Yeah. Well, I've heard really good things 896 00:59:15.590 --> 00:59:17.789 about it and I had a few people tell me that they're really good with 897 00:59:19.469 --> 00:59:22.510 being supportive and stuff. So I was like okay, and it was like 898 00:59:22.670 --> 00:59:27.659 threezero dollars, USD technically, but you know, I had it and it 899 00:59:27.780 --> 00:59:30.099 doesn't it doesn't feel like that, like right, I spent it, and 900 00:59:30.139 --> 00:59:32.739 now, I mean I've gotten a ton of follows. I've made friends already. 901 00:59:34.659 --> 00:59:37.500 It's it's just such an experience in itself. Like, yeah, it 902 00:59:37.500 --> 00:59:40.570 sounds like a lot of money to people who are in the space, but 903 00:59:40.730 --> 00:59:45.010 it really is worth it if you can afford it. Yeah, and you 904 00:59:45.090 --> 00:59:46.570 can work your way up to these things too. I mean you can trade 905 00:59:46.570 --> 00:59:50.650 and flip and then eventually get up there and the three thousand doesn't it's not 906 00:59:50.690 --> 00:59:52.320 that much anymore. No, that's the thing. It's a lot to the 907 00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:57.039 average person, and most of my listeners are still in the cash dirt world. 908 00:59:57.480 --> 00:60:01.679 But right once you get over the Hump and into nft's, for example, 909 00:60:02.480 --> 00:60:06.599 get that couple of hundred dollars to load up your collection, you can 910 00:60:06.639 --> 00:60:08.869 start making art and then you can buy your own nft and then you could 911 00:60:08.909 --> 00:60:12.789 flip it wait for it to, you know, increase in value. And 912 00:60:12.829 --> 00:60:15.269 they increase in value daily. This is like day trading of the S, 913 00:60:15.389 --> 00:60:19.869 like when thecom's first came around, right, this is the speed at which 914 00:60:19.949 --> 00:60:23.300 things increase in value now. So that's really amazing. It is so fast. 915 00:60:23.940 --> 00:60:30.460 It is is so volatile to a degree, but also like once you 916 00:60:30.619 --> 00:60:35.579 know who in the community, kind of knows what they're doing and who people 917 00:60:35.579 --> 00:60:37.449 are like really just hanging out on twitter and getting to know everyone is like 918 00:60:37.489 --> 00:60:40.210 the start. I wouldn't buy anything just for the listeners out there. I 919 00:60:40.210 --> 00:60:44.849 wouldn't buy anything initially right away. I would go on twitter and start networking 920 00:60:44.849 --> 00:60:46.449 in and kind of get to know who people are to know what to buy. 921 00:60:46.530 --> 00:60:50.880 That way you don't end up like wasting money on things that aren't that 922 00:60:51.119 --> 00:60:53.639 you know they're going to tank, because that does happen, oh for sure. 923 00:60:53.760 --> 00:60:57.039 Yeah, and if it's going to mean if you just buying for art 924 00:60:57.119 --> 00:61:00.480 sake, then buy on on the visual esthetic value, on the price, 925 00:61:00.519 --> 00:61:04.670 if you're buying for community and all those other things. Yeah, definitely, 926 00:61:04.710 --> 00:61:07.989 do you research. It's pretty easy to do the research. Just follow people 927 00:61:07.989 --> 00:61:10.869 who are cool and look at who they're following and see how they became decent 928 00:61:10.949 --> 00:61:15.630 humans and the NFT space. It'll all work out. I noticed you'll basically 929 00:61:15.909 --> 00:61:21.219 tell people buy things you love, because that way if the price goes down, 930 00:61:21.380 --> 00:61:24.099 you don't feel bad. Yeah, you still love it. Right, 931 00:61:24.300 --> 00:61:28.579 that's so, and you have it forever, exactly, and there's proof, 932 00:61:28.699 --> 00:61:30.099 and if you ever ever want to get rid of it, you could still 933 00:61:30.139 --> 00:61:36.010 sell it. Yeah, there's I don't know, aside from the initial kind 934 00:61:36.050 --> 00:61:38.250 of risk to get into the game, there's not much downside at all, 935 00:61:38.530 --> 00:61:44.849 especially for artists. Agreed now, I own my only regret is not getting 936 00:61:44.849 --> 00:61:46.719 into the sooner. I didn't know about it. Yeah, I does. 937 00:61:46.840 --> 00:61:50.039 Yeah, I don't know how much sooner we could have known. I mean 938 00:61:50.079 --> 00:61:52.000 I'm pretty up on Tech and art and design and like, well, okay, 939 00:61:52.119 --> 00:61:54.760 I'm not up on crypto investing. That's the one thing I was not 940 00:61:54.920 --> 00:61:59.719 up on and okay, now I am. Fill in the blank. Yeah, 941 00:61:59.719 --> 00:62:02.230 right. I first, when I heard about it I thought it was 942 00:62:02.269 --> 00:62:08.190 ridiculous, like everybody else, admittingly. I mean my friend Jonathan had called 943 00:62:08.269 --> 00:62:10.670 and I was just like, I don't know, was so weird. But 944 00:62:10.829 --> 00:62:15.389 the second I heard about the royalties and how it works and how thinking about 945 00:62:15.429 --> 00:62:19.019 how artists have been underpaid historically for so long, I was immediately like yes, 946 00:62:19.460 --> 00:62:22.380 we need this so bad in the art world that I was I don't 947 00:62:22.380 --> 00:62:23.420 know, it just hit me and I was like I'm doing it. Yeah, 948 00:62:23.900 --> 00:62:28.860 there's no going back once you're once you're in your in. That's great. 949 00:62:28.900 --> 00:62:32.690 I noticed your discord is actually on your twitter bio. So for the 950 00:62:32.730 --> 00:62:39.369 listener. If you just go to twittercom monsters of mind, you'll see epic 951 00:62:39.489 --> 00:62:45.119 undercats monsters of mind project there and the discord server will take you to what's 952 00:62:45.119 --> 00:62:47.239 the name of the midnight special? Mid that society? Society. Yeah, 953 00:62:47.559 --> 00:62:51.559 cool, I think I'm going to join there. If you see Johnny motion 954 00:62:51.679 --> 00:62:53.559 show up, that's me. Awesome. All right. Yeah, it's a 955 00:62:53.639 --> 00:62:59.710 fun it's a fun community, especially we had I had Gary v share a 956 00:62:59.789 --> 00:63:02.909 piece of my art the other day and saw that definitely complate. We got 957 00:63:02.989 --> 00:63:07.670 more people in pretty quickly. It was pretty cool. That is awesome. 958 00:63:07.110 --> 00:63:13.019 You're on fire. Well, ain't going anywhere, so no, see, 959 00:63:13.059 --> 00:63:15.420 that's the great thing for a true artist to be on fire. It's like 960 00:63:15.460 --> 00:63:17.099 it's only going to be great, like buy some art now. You could 961 00:63:17.099 --> 00:63:22.539 just limit your output. Let's make admittingly. I mean I've cried like multiple 962 00:63:22.579 --> 00:63:28.530 times just from feeling validated. I mean I had wanted to be an artist 963 00:63:28.530 --> 00:63:30.090 since I was a kid, my whole life, and I work so hard 964 00:63:30.130 --> 00:63:37.050 and I thought I would be stuck working a lower income social services job forever. 965 00:63:37.289 --> 00:63:40.289 And like now I actually feel like a real artist. That's like a 966 00:63:40.480 --> 00:63:45.400 great my smiles so big when I hear stories like that, it's life changing. 967 00:63:45.840 --> 00:63:50.320 Yeah, absolutely right. I mean it sounds so sounds to the new 968 00:63:50.400 --> 00:63:52.920 listener that just came in on this podcast, it sounds like we're talking about 969 00:63:52.960 --> 00:63:57.750 people winning the lottery, but it's even better than that because it's money they 970 00:63:57.789 --> 00:64:03.949 made from their own creative output, right. I mean there's no more beautiful 971 00:64:03.949 --> 00:64:08.750 thing in my opinion than seeing, because I've been there, but also watching 972 00:64:08.789 --> 00:64:12.619 other artists that sell something and they're, you know, writing about it on 973 00:64:12.659 --> 00:64:15.340 twitter and they're shaking and they're crying and they're like so excited because they sold 974 00:64:15.380 --> 00:64:18.539 out. I mean this happens every day in the space, all the time, 975 00:64:18.980 --> 00:64:21.860 for sure. So beautiful. I love that. So, as a 976 00:64:21.980 --> 00:64:25.570 therapist, I have to ask this because it comes up in my own mind 977 00:64:25.650 --> 00:64:29.250 a lot. Or I don't mean to put therapist on you for not a 978 00:64:29.289 --> 00:64:30.889 therapist, but since you're in that realm and you have that training. All 979 00:64:30.889 --> 00:64:36.809 right, the topic of toxic positivity comes to mind when I see people saying 980 00:64:36.929 --> 00:64:41.639 we're all going to make it, because statistically, of course we're all not 981 00:64:41.800 --> 00:64:45.840 going to make it. But then on the flip side, without that on 982 00:64:45.320 --> 00:64:50.679 ongoing encouragement and positivity, I wouldn't be there. So do you? Do 983 00:64:50.719 --> 00:64:55.590 you understand what I'm talking about? First and then do you see any problems 984 00:64:55.590 --> 00:65:00.389 with people jumping into soon just thinking it's going to be the end all to 985 00:65:00.469 --> 00:65:04.590 save all, to help their life, when it's actually yes, and I 986 00:65:04.630 --> 00:65:10.019 get worried about the people who maybe don't understand their risks either, because, 987 00:65:10.099 --> 00:65:12.579 yes, they're I mean, yeah, you can have financial freedom, some 988 00:65:12.659 --> 00:65:15.579 people can, but if you're going in and you're just throwing money around and 989 00:65:15.699 --> 00:65:19.980 you don't know what you're doing, I mean that that is terrifying to me 990 00:65:20.449 --> 00:65:25.409 because people, after they lose all this money, they get suicidal, they 991 00:65:25.409 --> 00:65:30.050 get severely depressed and sometimes there is no get coming back from that, there's 992 00:65:30.050 --> 00:65:33.969 no recovering. And then the we're all going to make it thing. It 993 00:65:34.050 --> 00:65:40.239 doesn't really apply, but I mean I think it's so early that if somebody 994 00:65:40.679 --> 00:65:43.800 hangs out and gets to learn the community really well, I think that there 995 00:65:43.880 --> 00:65:45.719 is a really high chance of getting to make it, especially because, I 996 00:65:45.800 --> 00:65:48.920 mean even in the space, after you network enough, you can meet famous 997 00:65:48.960 --> 00:65:53.829 people, mean real life, like someone that I knew on my facebook for 998 00:65:53.869 --> 00:65:58.190 a long time. He got into NFT's before me. He made. Oh 999 00:65:58.230 --> 00:66:00.469 my God, it was like Voodoo dolls, Voodoo dollars or whatever on alsoe 1000 00:66:01.630 --> 00:66:05.260 he, he does pretty well, but he just went to the boarding yacht 1001 00:66:05.260 --> 00:66:09.139 club event that happened recently and he was like, Oh, I got him 1002 00:66:09.179 --> 00:66:12.820 partying with like all these famous people and they're all really wealthy and he was 1003 00:66:12.900 --> 00:66:15.179 like really excited, like post you on facebook. So these things can happen, 1004 00:66:15.340 --> 00:66:19.969 but you have to be educated and know what you're doing, I guess. 1005 00:66:20.010 --> 00:66:23.769 Yeah, yeah, and know that there are ups and downs, like 1006 00:66:23.969 --> 00:66:29.170 don't go in all like. So my know, my worry about some of 1007 00:66:29.250 --> 00:66:32.480 the those folks who jump in think they're going to make it. They last 1008 00:66:32.519 --> 00:66:36.920 a week and then they get super, super depressed because they have no patience 1009 00:66:38.079 --> 00:66:40.880 and they think like, Oh Gosh, this was supposed to be the dream 1010 00:66:40.960 --> 00:66:44.840 for everybody, and even even the dream for everybody is no good for me. 1011 00:66:45.079 --> 00:66:47.030 I guess I'm out of here, so I just I guess I'm just 1012 00:66:47.190 --> 00:66:50.630 want to remind people to be patient, like and to your point, don't 1013 00:66:50.630 --> 00:66:55.949 spend money you don't have on things you don't need. But another thing I've 1014 00:66:56.030 --> 00:67:00.190 noticed is give it at least twelve months. I am kind of an anomaly 1015 00:67:00.550 --> 00:67:04.460 and I recognize that I've done decently well for my projects only four months old. 1016 00:67:04.900 --> 00:67:08.219 Wow, so I've done yeah, you kick. Yeah, that's great. 1017 00:67:09.099 --> 00:67:12.619 It's for some reason I've done really well, but most people, a 1018 00:67:12.820 --> 00:67:15.769 lot of times I need it takes a full year, twelve months of consistency, 1019 00:67:15.809 --> 00:67:19.090 because collectors need to know you're not going to disappear. They need to 1020 00:67:19.170 --> 00:67:21.570 know that you're going to be there for a really long time, and you 1021 00:67:21.650 --> 00:67:25.489 have to build friendships and build report with people, like with anything else. 1022 00:67:25.530 --> 00:67:30.199 So it's kind of like being an nft artist is also being a CEO, 1023 00:67:30.280 --> 00:67:34.760 it's being an artist and it's being like a community engagement specialist at the same 1024 00:67:34.800 --> 00:67:38.400 time, like you're doing all of these things at once. Yep, not 1025 00:67:39.119 --> 00:67:43.400 just being an artist. Yeah, well, maybe like being a politician running 1026 00:67:43.400 --> 00:67:45.389 for office, like you can't really do anything wrong in your community. If 1027 00:67:45.429 --> 00:67:48.150 you do, they're gone their leave. If you're not a stand up, 1028 00:67:48.150 --> 00:67:53.909 virtuous person, they'll yeah. Well, and I think what we're going to 1029 00:67:53.949 --> 00:67:58.230 see is the people who are actually dedicated to their communities or the people that 1030 00:67:58.269 --> 00:68:00.820 are going to come out of it really successful. Yeah, agreed, and 1031 00:68:01.179 --> 00:68:04.420 in good art helps, but it's not a requirement. I think that's the 1032 00:68:04.820 --> 00:68:10.139 anomaly we speak speak of with your situation, is that your art kicks ass 1033 00:68:10.619 --> 00:68:14.409 and you're dedicated to your community. So Bravo for that. Like and I 1034 00:68:14.530 --> 00:68:16.130 really appreciate you coming on the show. It takes a lot of courage to 1035 00:68:16.170 --> 00:68:20.729 get up and just speak on a show or a podcast you've never heard of 1036 00:68:20.890 --> 00:68:24.970 or, you know, just a weird thing to like, come home on 1037 00:68:25.010 --> 00:68:28.399 a Sunday evening and talk on a podcast. But you've done an awesome job 1038 00:68:28.439 --> 00:68:31.640 and I think my listeners will love it and man, I just can't I 1039 00:68:31.720 --> 00:68:34.800 can't thank you enough. Now here's an odd question. I hadn't thought about 1040 00:68:34.800 --> 00:68:39.600 this until now, or you know, right before we record him. If 1041 00:68:39.680 --> 00:68:44.430 I save this audio file as a wavefile, do you have a problem with 1042 00:68:44.590 --> 00:68:48.789 me uploading it somewhere as a nft? Oh, I don't care. Go 1043 00:68:48.869 --> 00:68:50.789 ahead, it would be neat. That's fine. I think I'm going to 1044 00:68:50.869 --> 00:68:55.229 so if I do, it'll probably be on object and I'll probably be using 1045 00:68:55.310 --> 00:68:59.979 tz because that's the music arey. But I don't see many podcasts people putting 1046 00:69:00.020 --> 00:69:01.539 this shit up on the Internet like W I think that's a good idea. 1047 00:69:01.659 --> 00:69:03.779 Why not? Yeah, just do it. I'm going to go record some 1048 00:69:03.819 --> 00:69:06.819 drum tracks and put them up there. Took to throw a bunch of Spaghetti. 1049 00:69:06.859 --> 00:69:11.090 Are Everything whatever. Just put it off there, see what happens. 1050 00:69:11.130 --> 00:69:24.170 And now back to the wall.