Marci Delmastro (@bPolarARt) Returns Live via Twitter Spaces

WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.960 Hey now what's happening in Johnny motions are welcome back to Emo Dojo. Today 2 00:00:04.960 --> 00:00:10.279 I tried a new thing, an experiment if you will. I gave the 3 00:00:10.439 --> 00:00:15.199 guest a choice to do the podcast the normal way, the way we had 4 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:18.519 done it before. Her name is Marcy, she's an artist and she has 5 00:00:18.559 --> 00:00:23.719 bipolar disorder. So we talked to her before about an ft art and things 6 00:00:23.760 --> 00:00:27.960 like that, which means she's big on twitter, which is where nft artist 7 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.760 primarily share their artwork and try to get people to buy it. Since she 8 00:00:31.839 --> 00:00:35.320 does that, I gave her the option to do twitter spaces, and twitter 9 00:00:35.359 --> 00:00:39.560 spaces as much like the clubhouse app where you know people just show up and 10 00:00:39.560 --> 00:00:43.000 you can raise your hand to speak. Well, you can also record those 11 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:49.280 spaces, and the idea was to basically record her podcast in a spaces. 12 00:00:49.320 --> 00:00:52.439 So there's good and bad to that. If we did it again, we 13 00:00:52.479 --> 00:00:55.840 would do it differently, but this was the very first time, so there's 14 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.280 a lot of trial and error involved. Anyway, what I would do differently 15 00:00:59.920 --> 00:01:03.880 is promoted heavily in advance, but more than that, I would promote it 16 00:01:03.880 --> 00:01:07.840 with an actual podcast. So in the future I will probably record a podcast 17 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:14.719 here with the guests and then the following week do a twitter spaces where the 18 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:19.760 guests and I talk again, but with the inclusion of audience members that can 19 00:01:19.799 --> 00:01:23.519 do a Qa in real time with their voices. So that's the idea for 20 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:27.599 future podcast. And frankly, the audio kind of sucks. So I'm not 21 00:01:27.680 --> 00:01:33.760 really proud of putting recorded audio from a twitter spaces up into this RSS feed 22 00:01:33.799 --> 00:01:38.280 because, yeah, it's good content, but I'm into at least decent sounding 23 00:01:38.319 --> 00:01:42.760 audio. So you'll be forgiven if you get into this a few minutes and 24 00:01:42.799 --> 00:01:46.319 say that I can't do it and you know, go on to the next 25 00:01:46.359 --> 00:01:49.599 episode. I get it. I understand them the same way. That said, 26 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:53.359 it's a cool conversation. I love talking to Marci. She and if 27 00:01:53.400 --> 00:01:57.040 you have bipolar disorder, you will get it like you will understand that were 28 00:01:57.120 --> 00:02:00.799 conversation and where she's coming from. Fortunately, because I agreed to host, 29 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:04.480 I was in the right space and I was able to host that was clear 30 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:07.680 minded and able to keep us on track, and that's awesome, because if 31 00:02:07.719 --> 00:02:14.960 we were both hyplomatic or often a in a tizzi somewhere, it probably wouldn't 32 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:20.199 worked out too well. Their work up of technical issues and you'll hear them. 33 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.360 But whatever, it's not that big of a deal. I'm just going 34 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:27.080 to call this a bonus episode because of the sound quality. But know that 35 00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:30.680 in the future, if you want to participate, we will have guests on 36 00:02:30.840 --> 00:02:35.759 and then a week later we will talk to the guests live in twitter spaces. 37 00:02:35.759 --> 00:02:38.639 So if you don't have a twitter account, you may as well get 38 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:40.360 one. I mean, yeah, I get there's stigma and a lot of 39 00:02:40.360 --> 00:02:44.400 people are proud that they don't have twitter accounts or whatever, but I'm just 40 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.800 saying, if you want to participate, yeah, do that, get a 41 00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:50.479 twitter account. All right, so let's take a listen. This is what 42 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:55.120 it sounds like when we recorded the twitter spaces. And here's a conversation with 43 00:02:55.159 --> 00:02:59.479 one of my friends, Marcy. She goes by the twitter handled be polar 44 00:02:59.680 --> 00:03:10.120 art, an artist in the NFT space here Emo Dojo. How is life 45 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:14.439 going in general for you? In the past half a year we haven't talked 46 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:20.159 and you know, just before the holidays were Um, it's been back and 47 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:28.800 forth. I have been in the middle of a medical medication transition and you 48 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:37.039 know those are always scary. Yeah, great, unknown. Yeah, it 49 00:03:37.319 --> 00:03:45.639 seems to be going pretty well. However, my adhd seems to be exasperated 50 00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:53.520 right now and so I will be talking to my doctor about that because I'm 51 00:03:53.520 --> 00:04:00.159 having a lot of like accidents, like falling because my brain, my body 52 00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:10.319 is reacting before my brain has a chance to process, before I move, 53 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:15.399 and some always like dropping things, and I did a little bit of research 54 00:04:15.480 --> 00:04:24.240 and found out that it is a strong symptom of Adhd. So I'm going 55 00:04:24.279 --> 00:04:29.399 to talk to my doctor about it. What that is wild. I was. 56 00:04:29.800 --> 00:04:31.439 I had a problem with that last week to the point where I thought 57 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:35.839 I was had early on set all timers or something. I was I was 58 00:04:36.959 --> 00:04:41.079 apparently the word spouse is bad in the UK, so I hate to say 59 00:04:41.079 --> 00:04:45.759 it, but it's the word typically is. So I was spausing so hard, 60 00:04:45.800 --> 00:04:46.879 back and forth, play old I need to get the key stone, 61 00:04:46.879 --> 00:04:50.360 more of my key's glasses. Shit. I got to get it and I'd 62 00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:56.160 literally started shaking. I'm like, what the yeah, it was really bizarre. 63 00:04:56.199 --> 00:04:58.959 I'm like, wait, do I need drugs, because I'm about medicated 64 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:03.360 for Adhd currently because it raised my blood pressure. So the lesser of two 65 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:09.399 evils is my blood pressure is lower and my adhd is night self managed, 66 00:05:09.519 --> 00:05:14.279 which is true, especially when you get those physical manifestations of it like that 67 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:17.879 that you are unexplainable. Yeah, I can't get I can't because of my 68 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:26.040 bipolar. I can't really take adhd medicine because it induces manic episodes for me 69 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:32.839 because of the stimulant. But I know there are some adhd medications that aren't 70 00:05:32.959 --> 00:05:38.920 stimulants. So I need to talk to my doctor about that because it's pretty 71 00:05:38.959 --> 00:05:44.480 serious. I mean I the other night I, instead of taking my my 72 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:50.800 medication that I take at night, I accidentally took the daytime medication and that's 73 00:05:50.839 --> 00:05:56.839 not really that could be pretty, pretty dangerous. So but oh, yeah, 74 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.480 yeah, is that? Sometimes you end up doubling up exactly on man 75 00:06:00.920 --> 00:06:03.680 exactly. So That's interesting. Yeah, because when we talked before, I 76 00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:08.680 don't think we really talked about ads. No, because it's not like the 77 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:19.160 predominant feature and my mental health, it's really the bipolar, the depressive side, 78 00:06:21.199 --> 00:06:27.600 that is predominant. Yeah, I have the same too, and my 79 00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:32.160 doctors tell me that they're kind of cohabitate the minds of people off. Yes, 80 00:06:32.360 --> 00:06:35.399 both Adhd, which is kind of it sucks because then you never know 81 00:06:35.439 --> 00:06:42.439 if, if you're being a SPAZ or if you're suffering from hypel me I, 82 00:06:42.639 --> 00:06:46.480 because they're different. Yeah, they definitely are, and in the last 83 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.879 like month I was really, really able to hone in on which one was 84 00:06:50.879 --> 00:06:55.720 which, but that's the first time I've ever been able to do that. 85 00:06:56.920 --> 00:07:04.079 Could you put that differentiation into words? Um, yeah, the adhd just 86 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:12.279 feels like like my body is hyperactive but my brain isn't as hyperactive. With 87 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:17.800 a mania, it's everything. It's like my brain is going insane, insanely 88 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:24.360 fast and and my body is going fast. And so I think that if 89 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:33.639 differentiation, I believe comes from the differences going on in my brain. Interesting 90 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:38.399 and the way you just framed it also sounds like one of the differences might 91 00:07:38.439 --> 00:07:43.360 be the lag time in our bodies catching up. When it's just ADH yeah, 92 00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:46.360 when it's adhd, our brain is mber back and forth, your body 93 00:07:46.399 --> 00:07:48.839 has, you know, hard time to catch up and then we start fumbling 94 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:53.560 and running into walls and just weird stuff. Like sometimes I feel like as 95 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:58.560 an adult, grown up, I feel like I have like growing stumbling problems 96 00:07:58.600 --> 00:08:01.720 like I did when I was growing from a toddler to an adolescent. I 97 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:05.800 just gangly weird things like yeah, the doctors and though you don't have any 98 00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.120 other problem, that's Adhd and like and I a great yeah, and then, 99 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:11.560 you know what, I don't think they ever talked about that, and 100 00:08:11.600 --> 00:08:16.720 so it was really interesting to kind of come to that realization and I'm glad 101 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:20.959 I did. Yeah, yeah, I didn't know about until you just mentioned 102 00:08:22.040 --> 00:08:24.360 I didn't know that that was a connection, but once you say it out 103 00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:28.120 like sense and yeah, yeah, and I'm glad you put it into words 104 00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:31.680 that way, because being hyperactive does feel like your mind is moving a little 105 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.840 bit ahead of your body, whereas being madic it feels like everything is full 106 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.080 tilt. Yeah, the mania. With the mania, the brain goes much, 107 00:08:39.279 --> 00:08:46.200 much, much faster than than it does with the ADHD. Right, 108 00:08:46.279 --> 00:08:50.200 it takes on a life of it. Yeah, I feel I feel like 109 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:54.360 with the Adhd it's more of like a motor type of thing, whereas with 110 00:08:54.519 --> 00:09:03.960 bipolar it's racing of the brain. I like how you said motor there, 111 00:09:03.960 --> 00:09:09.600 because this presents a really insidious problem. So with bipolar we also experience depression, 112 00:09:09.720 --> 00:09:11.320 right, and you would think that that would be a time like, 113 00:09:11.360 --> 00:09:13.320 oh, okay, we're just depressed, that we can finally get some rest 114 00:09:13.320 --> 00:09:16.000 because we're really you know, body doesn't want to move or whatever. But 115 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:20.480 while I'm depressed, I still have adhd, so that motor keeps driving. 116 00:09:20.639 --> 00:09:24.720 So I'd have no peace when I'm depressed. The fucking motor just keeps man 117 00:09:24.840 --> 00:09:26.559 in and in it get up, go, go, go, go. 118 00:09:26.919 --> 00:09:30.639 Yeah. So, yeah, that's the cool way you framed that. I 119 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:37.200 like that's a really good point. Yeah, so what's up? Can you 120 00:09:37.240 --> 00:09:43.159 talk about your visitor? Yeah, it was my niece and she lives in 121 00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:48.919 the Netherlands and my husband and I are kind of pack rats and we have 122 00:09:48.960 --> 00:09:56.600 a lot of crap and the house really needed to get cleaned and it took 123 00:09:56.679 --> 00:10:03.080 me a good month of strenuous cleaning. And so it was. It was, 124 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:11.679 it was stressful and now I kind of am winding down and trying to 125 00:10:11.879 --> 00:10:16.000 Oh yeah, trying to figure out how to work my way back into spaces 126 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:24.279 and into nft land. That's cool. I'm glad you got to take a 127 00:10:24.279 --> 00:10:26.200 normal life break because I mean, and like I said, normal life is 128 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.120 a lot of work, sometimes both the the and the work preparing for a 129 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.000 guest and then the hosting of a guest, because I love hanging out with 130 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:41.159 my closest people for certain amounts of time exactly. But after a while I 131 00:10:41.279 --> 00:10:45.879 buy tolerance for any people or any other being is limited and I start to 132 00:10:45.879 --> 00:10:48.720 get really fragile and I fear that I take it out on people nearest me. 133 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:52.480 So I don't think I'm a great host for more than maybe four or 134 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:56.159 five hours, okay, and but that that's so. I'm always I get 135 00:10:56.240 --> 00:11:01.919 so wound up about trying to host people as guests. So that is pretty 136 00:11:01.960 --> 00:11:03.919 pretty traumatic because there's a lot of all. It's not just the cleaning of 137 00:11:03.919 --> 00:11:07.559 the house, it's the preparing. Yeah, are am I doing it right? 138 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:09.120 Am I being a good home? Yeah, and this is family to 139 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.919 family from a different country, so you want to put on a, you 140 00:11:11.960 --> 00:11:16.559 know, good representation of life here and all that. So I could imagine 141 00:11:16.559 --> 00:11:20.720 that's pretty stat. It was definitely stressful and I definitely like like I was 142 00:11:20.759 --> 00:11:26.440 talking to Eric, Eric Inin art there. I was talking to hand yesterday 143 00:11:26.440 --> 00:11:31.279 about like I feel like I've been away from like the NFT world for like 144 00:11:31.399 --> 00:11:37.840 years now. You know, that's like just been a couple weeks. Isn't 145 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:39.960 why it really is. Hey, Angie, time we was supposed to. 146 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:48.799 Angie Vila. Yeah, so I this is the first time I think, 147 00:11:48.840 --> 00:11:56.080 I've been kind of like back. I haven't spoken. You cut out there 148 00:11:56.120 --> 00:12:01.080 for a second, Marcie, go for the engine. I was just going 149 00:12:01.120 --> 00:12:05.879 to say that mercy made me to leave the space and return to get back. 150 00:12:05.919 --> 00:12:09.360 So sorry you guys. There she is. I'm so sorry. Yeah, 151 00:12:09.320 --> 00:12:16.919 that's okay. Yeah, my mom's glad. There's Parkinson's and she just 152 00:12:16.960 --> 00:12:20.480 got back home from Rehab and she's really not ready and so I was kind 153 00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:26.080 of trying to cordate. Couldn't but that coordinate with my dad to go out 154 00:12:26.120 --> 00:12:33.200 there tomorrow. So I just called me to give me an update. Everything's 155 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:39.080 good. Everything's good for yeah, sorry, I bought that. No worries, 156 00:12:39.559 --> 00:12:45.679 just always. My Buddy had has two parents now, one that had 157 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:48.399 Parkinson's and Alzheimer's, and it was kind of sad. It was kind of 158 00:12:48.440 --> 00:12:52.720 like a normal thing, I guess, for US humans to watch us in 159 00:12:52.759 --> 00:12:56.320 two thousand and twenty two, but it was super I don't know, it's 160 00:12:56.360 --> 00:13:00.159 like like that. I don't know how to say it. With that, 161 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:01.320 I don't know. Not Trying to fend you, I'm just speaking to my 162 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.600 friend's thing. But it was like they died twice. They died when they 163 00:13:05.639 --> 00:13:09.960 lost their man and then, you know, about a year or two later 164 00:13:09.159 --> 00:13:13.799 one of them passed away in the flesh. But I like, I know 165 00:13:13.919 --> 00:13:18.120 that's troubling. That's I don't even know how to process. So bless you 166 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:22.519 and hope things get softer as they come to a landing over there on that. 167 00:13:22.639 --> 00:13:28.559 Yeah, so let's move on to aren't you want to start talking about 168 00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.960 or? Okay, because I'm really curious what you've been up to, not 169 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.360 last two weeks so much as the past six months. So when we first 170 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:45.200 talked in the NFT space you had just made your first sale and tones of 171 00:13:45.240 --> 00:13:50.159 excitement. Everybody was excited about and if yeps right, and everybody who is 172 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:52.200 paying attention, most of people in this room, that sort of thing. 173 00:13:52.320 --> 00:14:00.639 So that was awesome and studying and your art is really unique stands out. 174 00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:05.879 Where where do you stand now? How what has happened since then? Um, 175 00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:18.480 I started experiment with digital drawing and painting and found it really, really 176 00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:31.600 gratifying for several months and kind of stopped doing like physical artwork and just got 177 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:37.360 really really focused in on that and just read recently, like yesterday, the 178 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:41.360 first thing I did after my my niece left was I got some acrylic paint 179 00:14:41.360 --> 00:14:46.120 out and I just needed to play around with the paint for a little while. 180 00:14:46.320 --> 00:14:52.360 So I'm I'm back now to, you know, traditional materials and kind 181 00:14:52.360 --> 00:15:03.240 of my style is moving more towards like a pure abstract with you know, 182 00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:13.279 know identifiable content within the painting, and that's that's exciting for me. It's 183 00:15:13.279 --> 00:15:16.480 also kind of scary because abstract art is really difficult. People don't really, 184 00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:22.360 I think a lot of times people don't realize how difficult, you know, 185 00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:28.399 creating successful piece of abstract art is. Yeah, it's easy, it's easy 186 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:33.840 to identify after it's been done, but it's not easy to create. Yeah, 187 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:41.159 it's very hard. Let's back up a second. So what what interested 188 00:15:41.159 --> 00:15:46.159 you the most about digital and what kept you in that mode for quite a 189 00:15:46.159 --> 00:15:56.799 while? Um, there were certain things that are very kind of labor intensive. 190 00:15:56.879 --> 00:16:03.200 When you with painting, I like to kind of make a mess on 191 00:16:03.240 --> 00:16:07.840 the paper so that it really like sometimes I'll just like crumpled the piece of 192 00:16:07.840 --> 00:16:12.399 paper and like stomp on it and just give it as much texture as I 193 00:16:12.440 --> 00:16:18.440 want, and a lot of times I use like a razorblade or a sharp 194 00:16:18.440 --> 00:16:27.279 pen to mark up the surface and with the digital aspect of it you can 195 00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:37.559 get this really rich color and you can get this easier texture like that. 196 00:16:37.559 --> 00:16:41.240 That the ability to make texture is much less labor intensive. And I last 197 00:16:41.240 --> 00:16:45.720 time I spoke with you it talked about me having really bad arthritis, so 198 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:51.919 that was very, very helpful. That's interesting. That's a really good point 199 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:55.440 too, because a lot of people who listen to or find a podcast on 200 00:16:55.519 --> 00:17:00.440 mental health might have other disabilities, such as mobility issues. So that brings 201 00:17:00.519 --> 00:17:03.240 up a good point digital art. Had really thought of it in that sense, 202 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.680 because sometimes I'm narrow minded. But digital art is good for people with 203 00:17:07.920 --> 00:17:11.599 mobility problems, especially in the risk right. Yeah, it's what it's very 204 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:15.519 good. What did you use to create? So people who hear this later, 205 00:17:15.599 --> 00:17:18.119 I mean like we see like five people right here, but there would 206 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:22.640 be five people every day for the next year listening to this. So, 207 00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:29.200 but type of product did you use to create your digital art? procreate and 208 00:17:30.599 --> 00:17:33.480 on the IPAD and a digital like a pat you know, it's like a 209 00:17:33.559 --> 00:17:42.400 pen. Yeah, it's it really is gratifying to see this really rich dark 210 00:17:42.400 --> 00:17:52.839 color come alive in a way that you can't accomplish quite as easily with traditional 211 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:59.759 materials. Yeah, yeah, and I think it's both the ease and into 212 00:17:59.799 --> 00:18:02.799 it adness right, because they've done a really good job with a lot of 213 00:18:02.799 --> 00:18:07.400 software making the intuitiveness really high, so when you thinking of something, somehow 214 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.039 the software knows what you want to do and helps you do that. In 215 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:15.640 the analog world, you know, if you think you have an idea, 216 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:18.599 it's hard to make paint react the way you want paint to react and a 217 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:22.240 texture and all the different things, which goes to your point earlier about how 218 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:27.039 much effort you, like physical effort, you used to put into creating textures 219 00:18:27.039 --> 00:18:33.519 and things like that. Yeah, yeah, they've done an amazing job. 220 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:44.759 Honestly, I I had no idea what it was going to be like and 221 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:48.200 what I would when I found people's artwork that I liked and I could tell 222 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.720 that it was digital, I would always ask people what app they were using 223 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:57.200 and it seemed like everybody was using procreate. So I thought, you know 224 00:18:57.279 --> 00:19:03.799 what people are making the kind of artwork that I like with this APP, 225 00:19:03.839 --> 00:19:10.720 I'm going to try it, and it was. It was amazing. One 226 00:19:10.759 --> 00:19:18.519 of the things that I kind of miss and I could still do with digital, 227 00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:26.240 but not quite as as easily as in real life materials. is get 228 00:19:26.359 --> 00:19:33.960 like this complete random texture pattern whatever by just throwing paint on a piece of 229 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:41.559 paper right and letting the paint do what it wants to do. It's not 230 00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.759 quite as easy to do with the digital but it's easier than I thought it 231 00:19:45.759 --> 00:19:49.400 would be. Yeah, because you brought that up the last time. We 232 00:19:49.440 --> 00:19:52.480 talked about letting the paint do what it wants to do and the different yeah, 233 00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.839 crillics and oils and things like that. So I think that's kind of 234 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:00.000 profound that and wonder how long like, for example, this would be cool. 235 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:04.039 So, so you have a IPAD, right, and imagine if there 236 00:20:04.079 --> 00:20:07.839 was, because the IPAD has gyroscopes and Shit inside. So imagine if you 237 00:20:07.839 --> 00:20:12.720 could paint with thicker or wet or paint and then tip the ipad vertically and 238 00:20:12.759 --> 00:20:17.640 the paint will start to droop down the page. Oh my God, that's 239 00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:22.039 awesome. Get on that adobe or it's Getna. It'll, it'll happen, 240 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:27.319 it'll happen, and you know what that's that's exactly what I need. Yeah, 241 00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.160 it is better. You take your just drop a bunch of blob of 242 00:20:30.359 --> 00:20:34.880 fake digital paint onto an hive pad and then put it on it like a 243 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:40.720 clay wheeled, spin it and it would literally splatter your digital paint outward. 244 00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:45.519 That technology totally exists and I would love to see that kind of realism that. 245 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:48.640 So is that? Why? Is that why you went back to let's 246 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:56.119 call it organic are Um? There's a couple reasons. Number One, my 247 00:20:56.200 --> 00:21:06.160 hands just had this this desire to kind of like scrape the paint on to 248 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:11.599 the paper or use, you know, like a credit card to move this, 249 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:15.839 something like that to move the paint. I physically had this need to 250 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:21.240 do that. But I also needed it would I described it before, is 251 00:21:21.319 --> 00:21:26.599 kind of like a dance between the material and my my hand or my body, 252 00:21:27.319 --> 00:21:33.839 and so I just had that kind of longing for the material to tell 253 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.960 me what it wanted to do in a way that I couldn't do it with 254 00:21:37.279 --> 00:21:45.279 the digital. So I really needed that interaction that I wasn't able to get 255 00:21:45.279 --> 00:21:51.480 with the digital. That's interesting if you think digital will get there in our 256 00:21:51.599 --> 00:21:57.480 usable lifetime. Yeah, yeah, I it. It filled that void pretty 257 00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:06.119 well for a pretty decent amount of time and I will definitely be using it 258 00:22:07.680 --> 00:22:12.279 regularly. I there's a couple other ways that it really fills that void for 259 00:22:12.359 --> 00:22:22.160 me is that what I've been doing is taking pictures of the pieces that I've 260 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:30.839 currently made in real life and then digitally enhancing it, and the combination of 261 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:37.799 the two is really spectacular and it's something that I can't can't achieve with art 262 00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:45.839 materials itself. So it within it, within that, within the realm of 263 00:22:45.960 --> 00:22:52.640 kind of editing and improving upon what I've already created. The possibilities with that 264 00:22:52.799 --> 00:23:00.839 or endless and and that's really it's the joy of doing that is is intense, 265 00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:07.319 being able to, you know, brighten my colors and make more texture 266 00:23:07.319 --> 00:23:11.599 on top of the physical painting that I've already made, and it's just it's 267 00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:18.000 really gratifying. I'm happy that I took that that I was open enough to 268 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:22.880 take that journey, because I know a lot of us traditional artists kind of 269 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:30.920 can be a snob when it comes to this new technology and I I'm glad 270 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:37.400 that I gave myself the opportunity to try something new because it is going to 271 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.119 make me a better artist and it already yes and it already has made me 272 00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:45.119 a better artist. I think. Well, yeah, it's definitely broadened your 273 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.519 horizons a lot of times, regardless of be art I think technology has the 274 00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:52.799 same effect. Having been a drummer for so long, for most of my 275 00:23:52.839 --> 00:23:56.599 life, drums are wooden. They're made of wood and metal. That's it. 276 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.240 And the idea that we switched to a let to drums, for example, 277 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:03.720 and compete with drum machines, most drummers should like. No, no, 278 00:24:03.880 --> 00:24:10.599 they just became anti, anti anything digital, and I've found that no, 279 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:12.680 digital drums are actually a lot of fun too, but it doesn't mean 280 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:17.839 I don't still appreciate and like the first ones or prefer the electric ones. 281 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:19.960 But yeah, there's definitely if you do it right and just going with the 282 00:24:21.279 --> 00:24:25.359 big sense of curiosity, I think it's great because then you can really adapt 283 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:27.880 it to the way you want to and really expand your artwork instead of just, 284 00:24:29.000 --> 00:24:30.319 you know, you don't have to stand this lane or that lane. 285 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:34.400 Yeah, it's another it's another tool. It's another tool to make you a 286 00:24:34.400 --> 00:24:37.480 better artist. That's the way I look at it. Yeah, and would 287 00:24:37.480 --> 00:24:41.519 like you talked about the layer in there. We you take your organic artwork 288 00:24:41.599 --> 00:24:45.400 or photography of things like that. And then morph them into a wholly different 289 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:48.200 digital creation. With that core material. It's very much the same way of 290 00:24:48.240 --> 00:24:53.400 me dropping down a syncopated rhythm on a drum machine and then going solo organic 291 00:24:53.559 --> 00:24:56.839 drums on top of that. They both fit together, like how would they 292 00:24:56.920 --> 00:25:00.799 not fit together? Yeah, so I appreciate that you take that that forward. 293 00:25:00.799 --> 00:25:03.720 Look, you and I are both generation x, so you know, 294 00:25:03.759 --> 00:25:07.279 there's people definitely older than us, but a lot of people our age seem 295 00:25:07.359 --> 00:25:12.559 to have kind of getting gotten stuck in the I'm not. I'm not getting 296 00:25:12.559 --> 00:25:17.079 to the technology kind of mindset that people who are proud of not having social 297 00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:22.039 media accounts and those type of folks. So I appreciate you for sticking in 298 00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:26.200 there and keeping up with a technology on that aspect of it. Yeah, 299 00:25:26.319 --> 00:25:32.039 it's it's good to keep our minds open and keep moving with the rest of 300 00:25:32.079 --> 00:25:34.799 the world and try to keep up with it as much as we can. 301 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:38.160 You know, yeah, we didn't talk about this the last time, but 302 00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.079 the subjects kind of crossed my desk a couple of times in the past week. 303 00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:48.240 And that's the difference between a hobby and a profession. So you create 304 00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:52.240 professional level art, but I've never really asked you if you considered yourself a 305 00:25:52.279 --> 00:25:59.200 hobbyist or professional artist or somewhere between. I it has to be somewhere in 306 00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:11.599 between, probably because, like a I think that in a profession it really 307 00:26:11.680 --> 00:26:17.640 has to be a daily grind and it has to be a consistent grind. 308 00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:22.240 That's kind of the that's one of the reasons why I can't work anymore is 309 00:26:22.279 --> 00:26:30.759 because my my work is inconsistent in terms of the quality of it and whether 310 00:26:30.839 --> 00:26:36.839 or not I would go to work right just one of the reasons why why 311 00:26:37.319 --> 00:26:42.039 working just didn't work for me as a person with a mood disorder. So 312 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:49.759 I forgot that makes sense for me, I felt. Asked me, if 313 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.160 we're talking about hobby versus, whether they consider what it is. So definitely 314 00:26:55.200 --> 00:27:00.279 there's cost involved and there's lots of effort involved and skill involved and in some 315 00:27:00.319 --> 00:27:04.119 cases, especially with people with mental illnesses, there's the whole if I work 316 00:27:04.160 --> 00:27:07.519 too much, then I don't get any benefits problem, which I'm setting aside. 317 00:27:07.559 --> 00:27:12.160 It's just the philosophical conversation more about the effort that you put into a 318 00:27:12.200 --> 00:27:17.880 hobby and the reward you get for that effort. Yea, yeah, because 319 00:27:17.880 --> 00:27:19.440 you're not. They're grinding for money. Right. You're not. While you 320 00:27:19.480 --> 00:27:23.160 do and you could make money, your primary goal is not to grind out 321 00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:27.519 artwork simply to make money. It sounds like to me that your primary goal 322 00:27:27.559 --> 00:27:32.680 with art is the vocation of art, just creating. And Yeah, I 323 00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.799 don't. I mean I I know that. We say, why do you 324 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:42.200 make our and and you know the dance. The answer is different for everybody, 325 00:27:42.319 --> 00:27:49.000 but the true answer is that I just life just isn't to me. 326 00:27:49.119 --> 00:27:56.680 Life just isn't worth living without ourt and and and art is. To me, 327 00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:02.319 art is everything, like, it's not, it's it's not just painting 328 00:28:02.359 --> 00:28:04.960 on a canvas or on a piece of paper. It's, you know, 329 00:28:06.079 --> 00:28:11.279 it's the color that we paint our cars and our houses and the flowers that 330 00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:18.839 basically entertain our brains and our eyes and our senses. So I agree. 331 00:28:18.920 --> 00:28:22.279 Yeah, und so for me, life just doesn't work living without art and 332 00:28:22.400 --> 00:28:30.079 I I don't feel alive if I don't have some way to consume hurt and 333 00:28:30.160 --> 00:28:34.119 create our because I'm not, I'm not in a vacuum when it comes to 334 00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:38.319 creating. I want to look at other people's artwork, I find inspiration, 335 00:28:38.480 --> 00:28:44.640 I find you know, it's just it just like just it's not worth living 336 00:28:44.640 --> 00:28:47.799 without being able to consume it, but also, for me, it's not 337 00:28:47.880 --> 00:28:52.519 worth living without being able to create it. Right. Yeah, do you 338 00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:56.440 feel like you get stuffed up and angry if you have no way to expel 339 00:28:56.559 --> 00:29:02.200 your art from yourself? Yeah, yeah, I, you know, I 340 00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:06.720 I describe it as being constipated, just like if you can. Yeah, 341 00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:10.960 I was gonna use that word. Yeah, thank if. Yeah, like 342 00:29:11.039 --> 00:29:14.720 if you if you feel like you can't create, it's this, it's that 343 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:18.920 feeling. It's that and it's a desperate feeling. It's horrible when you want 344 00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:23.880 to make something deeply but you can't. And that's that's where that that's where 345 00:29:23.920 --> 00:29:33.079 that dance with the material comes in. I, because I work intuitively, 346 00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:40.200 I can get inspiration by throwing that paint on. It's my front. Eric 347 00:29:40.279 --> 00:29:42.559 was describing it as you know, looking at the clouds, were looking at 348 00:29:42.960 --> 00:29:47.359 marble and you your look at it and you're like, Oh, I see 349 00:29:47.440 --> 00:29:53.079 a dog there. And so sometimes I can't decide what to paint. The 350 00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:57.160 paint has to decide for me and I just have to kind of like find 351 00:29:57.200 --> 00:30:02.720 it, you know, like that's what that's what the beauty is of throwing 352 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:06.880 the materials on the paper, on the canvass. When you allow it to 353 00:30:07.000 --> 00:30:11.400 just kind of have a mind of its own, you can find your inspiration 354 00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:17.559 within it. That I oftentimes can't. I can't create the inspiration. I 355 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.920 have to find the inspiration. Yeah, yeah, the same. I invented 356 00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.880 a game with my kids. I don't know, other people probably did it 357 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:30.400 too. It's that super complicated. But the game was the four of us 358 00:30:30.480 --> 00:30:33.920 would sit around and the first one would draw a scribble, any scribble, 359 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.680 on a big piece of paper, like a you know, posterboard paper, 360 00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:41.960 and the next person had to turn that scribble into something that the rest of 361 00:30:41.039 --> 00:30:45.519 us could understand what the hell it was, and then the next person would 362 00:30:45.519 --> 00:30:48.119 go the circle. So, yeah, that was the inspiration was each of 363 00:30:48.160 --> 00:30:52.880 us would draw a scribble and it was part of a weird competition thing because 364 00:30:52.240 --> 00:30:56.400 each the next person was determined to make something out of that scribble, you 365 00:30:56.440 --> 00:31:02.039 know. So that's always a great thing, finding inspiration in the weirdest places. 366 00:31:02.039 --> 00:31:06.960 Included other people scribbles. Yeah, you know what, I I live 367 00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:08.920 across the street. I live in Chicago and all that. I live across 368 00:31:08.960 --> 00:31:15.640 the street from a starbucks and several years ago, when I was getting really, 369 00:31:15.680 --> 00:31:18.599 really serious about my artwork, I would go to starbucks and I would 370 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.799 ask the employees to scribble something on piece of paper and then I would make 371 00:31:22.799 --> 00:31:29.640 a piece of artwork out of it. And that's that's exactly what finding that 372 00:31:29.759 --> 00:31:33.480 kind and a gem inside the marble is is. It's it's it's just me 373 00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.720 paying attention to the material and seeing what the material wants me to do with 374 00:31:37.799 --> 00:31:44.079 it. Yeah, so, yeah, love points. It's interesting because I'm 375 00:31:44.079 --> 00:31:48.279 curious how you think the end resulting, since the material kind of dictates the 376 00:31:48.400 --> 00:31:52.160 art in a sense that we're talking about now. How do you feel your 377 00:31:52.200 --> 00:32:04.480 digital art is different from your organic art? Um? I don't know. 378 00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:07.480 I have to think about that. I yeah, have to think of it. 379 00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:10.279 No, it's not really a trick question, but I can't know. 380 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:15.359 I know self. You know, because like in one medium it's basically a 381 00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:17.839 stylus and a piece of glass. So there's not a lot of variety there 382 00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:22.279 except that through your brain, in your mind is interpreting through your eyes, 383 00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:28.240 which is a huge variety right. But then in the organic world everything is 384 00:32:28.240 --> 00:32:31.160 really slowed down a lot. You could do everything that's possible right in front 385 00:32:31.200 --> 00:32:35.880 of your fingertips. And you know, you mix purple and red and you 386 00:32:35.880 --> 00:32:38.559 get a different Magenta type of thing. So, yeah, it's always interesting 387 00:32:38.559 --> 00:32:43.720 to me like what the what the medium is dictating, especially when we simplify 388 00:32:43.839 --> 00:32:50.440 the medium to just a stylus and glass. Yeah, yeah, I think 389 00:32:50.519 --> 00:32:59.720 that one of the main differences is just the ability to interact with the materia. 390 00:33:00.000 --> 00:33:04.279 Ah, there's not. The glass in the style is doesn't give you 391 00:33:04.400 --> 00:33:07.319 as much to work with as, as you know, the paint does, 392 00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:10.359 because when once you get the paint there, you can put your finger in 393 00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:15.519 there and you know, swirl it around, you can put a razor blade 394 00:33:15.599 --> 00:33:19.519 in there, are pain in there or pencil in there and you know move 395 00:33:19.559 --> 00:33:22.200 it around in ways that you can't do digitally. But again, yeah, 396 00:33:22.200 --> 00:33:27.440 it did. But again, digitally I feel has made me a better artist 397 00:33:27.519 --> 00:33:30.839 because he gives me the ability, the ability to do things I can't do, 398 00:33:32.279 --> 00:33:37.240 you know, with real with real materials. Yeah, yeah, our 399 00:33:37.279 --> 00:33:42.200 finger tips are really sensitive and it's really bad for them to to embulate what 400 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:45.039 we do with paint, for example, things like that. But it I 401 00:33:45.720 --> 00:33:50.039 see a day in the next ten or fifteen years easily. We're like we 402 00:33:50.079 --> 00:33:52.559 talked about it. IPAD that you could tip on its side and the paint 403 00:33:52.559 --> 00:33:55.200 will start to drip to the side that same IPAD. You could flip a 404 00:33:55.240 --> 00:33:59.559 switch, you know, obviously a digital switch on your screen, to say 405 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:04.039 I want this to feel like sand paper or Burlap, and the haptic technology, 406 00:34:04.119 --> 00:34:07.799 the vibrational things that make you feel like there's an actual button under your 407 00:34:07.799 --> 00:34:12.960 home button on your iphone, that kind of technology will make you feel like, 408 00:34:13.039 --> 00:34:15.719 oh, that's scratchy now, like my stylus is having a hard time 409 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:21.800 bumping over these scratchy paper and I think that that will come a long way 410 00:34:21.840 --> 00:34:24.199 soon. Not I mean, I love technology, but I'm not involved in 411 00:34:24.199 --> 00:34:29.639 it, so please hurry up at the tech. No, you know what 412 00:34:29.719 --> 00:34:34.960 that's when you when you said having a difficult like that, the style is 413 00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:39.599 having a difficulture or the pen or whatever, having difficulty moving over the surface. 414 00:34:39.679 --> 00:34:42.840 As soon as you said that, my brain was like Ding, Ding, 415 00:34:42.920 --> 00:34:45.480 Ding, Ding Ding. You know, it was like that's so gratifying, 416 00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:53.880 you know, because you're you're you're being limited or you're letting the you're 417 00:34:53.960 --> 00:35:06.119 allowing the limitation of the material to limit you. Basically, yeah, I 418 00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:12.639 said, I'm so glad you you you have that analogy. I think a 419 00:35:12.639 --> 00:35:15.320 bit along because of the drum thing. And you know, first we had 420 00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:20.880 real regular drums and the first thing that came out of that was a Synth, 421 00:35:21.159 --> 00:35:23.039 not a not an electric drum set, which is the synthesize. It 422 00:35:23.079 --> 00:35:27.519 sounded like drums. Yeah, it went from one end of the far other 423 00:35:27.639 --> 00:35:30.880 and then finally we settle on the in between. And I think it'll be 424 00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:35.440 the same with digital technology for other artists as well. Like you'll go from 425 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:39.400 one end to the far extreme of glass and stylus right now, but soon 426 00:35:39.559 --> 00:35:44.039 that whole thing will just feel like any substrate you want it to feel like. 427 00:35:44.039 --> 00:35:46.000 You'll probably feel hot and cold, like when you touch paint, wet 428 00:35:46.039 --> 00:35:51.079 paint, it's a different temperature. They have the technology to make our screens 429 00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:54.559 do that. It's just super expensive right now. So I think the future 430 00:35:54.559 --> 00:36:00.239 of technology for artist is is huge and it's going to be great. If 431 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:02.880 we'll see it, I think we'll see it, but who knows what the 432 00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:07.880 future after that hold. Yeah, we'll see it towards like. I mean 433 00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:14.000 your what four, fifty five? I'm fifty. So we'll start seeing it 434 00:36:14.119 --> 00:36:21.880 in the next decade. But you know, people that are are millennials and 435 00:36:21.880 --> 00:36:25.199 people that haven't been born yet, that's going to be second nature for them. 436 00:36:25.199 --> 00:36:30.519 Oh yeah, and it'll be augmented reality, virtual reality. All with 437 00:36:30.559 --> 00:36:35.239 this hap to technology, like being ready player one that movie where they bore 438 00:36:35.320 --> 00:36:38.559 the suits, to have to technology suits that already exists. So the idea 439 00:36:38.639 --> 00:36:43.239 that everybody will have these in the futures not super far off. Yeah, 440 00:36:43.280 --> 00:36:47.199 everybody will have at least some kind of haptic Glob or are goggles to like 441 00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:52.199 expect walls of their home or whatever. But beyond that, just think of 442 00:36:52.239 --> 00:36:54.920 the applications for artist, it's just admits, I love. Yeah, it 443 00:36:55.159 --> 00:37:00.360 is and would like what you were describing with drums. It's just another it's 444 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:07.400 just another tool to enhance your creativity. Yeah, to kind of bridge the 445 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:13.480 gap from what you loved about the organic world but with the expanded potential of 446 00:37:13.519 --> 00:37:19.079 the digital world. Yeah, yeah, so what's up are you? Are 447 00:37:19.079 --> 00:37:22.280 you selling things? We won't talk about money specifically, but are you moving 448 00:37:22.480 --> 00:37:28.599 enough art to keep you motivated to keep selling art? As NFT's Um, 449 00:37:30.119 --> 00:37:42.039 I have this evil little this evil little monster on my shoulder that likes the 450 00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:52.159 validation of sales. I'm in a lucky position where I don't have to make 451 00:37:52.199 --> 00:37:58.480 money as an nft artist in order to survive, right, and that would 452 00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:06.920 be really devastating if I did, because I I think I'm I think my 453 00:38:07.119 --> 00:38:14.119 art is good enough, but I just can't figure out how to navigate, 454 00:38:15.559 --> 00:38:20.159 like life in general, when it comes to like, when it comes to 455 00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:25.599 like being a quote unquote success. So this is how my sales have come 456 00:38:25.639 --> 00:38:31.880 about. My sale sales have all been the direct result of a relationship that 457 00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:40.480 I built with somebody. I I'm not, at this point, the lucky 458 00:38:40.639 --> 00:38:45.880 artist who can put stuff out there and people just buy it, and I 459 00:38:45.920 --> 00:38:54.960 think that's because of my inability to be focused and consistent. I feel kind 460 00:38:55.000 --> 00:38:59.519 of like if I'm out there, people see me, but when I'm not 461 00:38:59.559 --> 00:39:02.960 out there I disappear, whereas there's some artists like my friend Nai and here, 462 00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:09.519 who he doesn't have to interact with the public. He he can disappear 463 00:39:09.559 --> 00:39:16.639 and his his work still is being seen. And so I have that frustration. 464 00:39:21.360 --> 00:39:24.800 I've so so basically, the essence of it is that any sales that 465 00:39:24.840 --> 00:39:31.039 I've gotten are based on relationships that I felt with people but which is one? 466 00:39:31.199 --> 00:39:35.639 One? Yeah, yeah, so, but it's a lot more time 467 00:39:35.679 --> 00:39:37.440 consuming, I guess. Yeah, that that not that this time not will 468 00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:42.159 spent. It's time will spent the course, probably better spent, but you're 469 00:39:42.199 --> 00:39:46.880 not amassing tens of thousands of sales because you are our way, not just 470 00:39:46.920 --> 00:39:52.440 your way. Because I'm the same way. My work product is inconsistent because 471 00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:55.840 of both my bipolar and my adhd. I get that, and no matter 472 00:39:55.880 --> 00:40:00.719 how much you can explain that to an employer or an nft market or anything, 473 00:40:00.920 --> 00:40:05.599 they won't care the moment you start disappearing or, you know, fading 474 00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:09.960 from their view or just in the constant stream daily yeah, it feels like 475 00:40:10.119 --> 00:40:15.320 you just get left out. So I think that is something everybody, you 476 00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:16.960 know, whether you have a mental illness or not, just really has to 477 00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:22.199 be careful of that. It is really a full time job and if you 478 00:40:22.199 --> 00:40:25.280 already have a fulltime job, you have to just consider that you now have 479 00:40:25.480 --> 00:40:29.199 to so to your point, though, we I think I brought this up 480 00:40:29.239 --> 00:40:32.199 on another podcast. Guessed was. That's why I think it's kind of cool 481 00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:37.519 thing for people that might have mental illnesses to the point where they get disability, 482 00:40:37.599 --> 00:40:40.239 because you don't have to make a lot of money, but you can 483 00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:43.400 make money. You don't have to cash it out, you could just leave 484 00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:46.320 it in the crypto world. All of those things are great options if you're 485 00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:50.679 able to eat and have a roof over your head already. And I think 486 00:40:50.719 --> 00:40:55.039 that's that's really cool that you both acknowledged and appreciated that. So, yeah, 487 00:40:55.199 --> 00:41:02.239 thank you. Yeah, it's and and I'm so emotionally attached to that, 488 00:41:06.159 --> 00:41:12.559 to that validation, so much so that it when I'm not healthy, 489 00:41:12.679 --> 00:41:19.440 when I'm depressed, I can't. That's that's when I need to remove myself 490 00:41:19.480 --> 00:41:23.280 the most, because that's when I become most invested in that validation. And 491 00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:31.320 and the lack of that validation is is it's devastating and dangerous. So I've 492 00:41:31.360 --> 00:41:44.639 had to really, I have to really really monitor myself and step away when 493 00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:51.800 I start feeling like nobody sees me. Why doesn't anybody see me? I'm 494 00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:55.440 invisible because I know, because I know I'm a good artist, in my 495 00:41:55.519 --> 00:41:59.639 eye, in my art, in my mind, I'm a good artist. 496 00:41:59.639 --> 00:42:07.320 I love the artwork I make. I don't feel inferior. But man, 497 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:12.880 not feeling seen will will bring you to places you just don't want to go, 498 00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:16.079 and so I have to be really, really careful. Yeah, but 499 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:21.400 for sure, because a lot of times, especially with artists, being an 500 00:42:21.519 --> 00:42:25.559 artist is a huge part of our personal identity. It's more of our identity 501 00:42:25.679 --> 00:42:30.360 than our family, the way we look or anything else. It's the fact 502 00:42:30.440 --> 00:42:35.519 that we are creatives and if that seems to be stripped from us, it's 503 00:42:35.559 --> 00:42:37.960 like part of your identity has been stripped from you and you can go flailing 504 00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:43.440 off into the ether pretty quick without an idea. Yea. So I think 505 00:42:43.480 --> 00:42:47.199 that's really smart and insightful that you're able to detect that on yourself and, 506 00:42:47.280 --> 00:42:52.440 like, you know, be guarded, guarded against that happening. Yeah, 507 00:42:52.440 --> 00:42:55.559 I'm not always successful, but I've gotten better and better at it and and 508 00:42:55.599 --> 00:43:00.719 to be perfectly honest with you, I mean twitter spaces have have changed my 509 00:43:00.760 --> 00:43:06.559 life. I have learned how to interact with people that I wasn't able to 510 00:43:06.599 --> 00:43:10.920 interact with in real life. I think the fact that we're a great big 511 00:43:10.960 --> 00:43:17.000 world and we're able to find one another like people in these spaces it really 512 00:43:17.079 --> 00:43:22.599 fills those those voids that you couldn't find in real life. I mean, 513 00:43:22.679 --> 00:43:25.480 you know, I live in Chicago, it's a huge city, there's a 514 00:43:25.559 --> 00:43:30.960 lot of people, but I can't find the same people in real life that 515 00:43:30.960 --> 00:43:37.840 I've found on on twitter spaces. So I've learned to feel comfortable in my 516 00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:45.880 own skin by interacting with people on twitter spaces. And and I will and 517 00:43:45.960 --> 00:43:51.719 I will continue to say that if I stopped making artwork or stopped trying to 518 00:43:51.760 --> 00:43:58.119 sell my artwork, I would still come into spaces because it's filled it's filled 519 00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.719 a void for me. It's given me that that feeling that I had when 520 00:44:01.719 --> 00:44:07.480 I was in college where you like, you know, class was done three 521 00:44:07.519 --> 00:44:13.320 hours ago and you're sitting in the hallway on the floor with your friends talking, 522 00:44:13.800 --> 00:44:17.360 you know, talking about life and yeah, it's your hope that it's 523 00:44:17.559 --> 00:44:22.400 Huh, you are hardcore. There's no way I would be out way off 524 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:27.519 the campus like see you, we're going to the lake, we're getting high. 525 00:44:27.519 --> 00:44:30.760 Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing. When I was in 526 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:36.079 school, see, initially I was a sculptor, because I don't we probably 527 00:44:36.119 --> 00:44:42.400 talked about this, yeah, we did. I lack technical skills and it 528 00:44:42.480 --> 00:44:46.320 was always frustrating and in a source of shame for me until I until I 529 00:44:46.360 --> 00:44:53.679 discovered like art brute and outsider art, and so I really was into sculpture 530 00:44:53.800 --> 00:45:00.159 and I my class would be done and I would be in the classroom by 531 00:45:00.199 --> 00:45:07.800 myself, like welding, or I mean welding, but with my teacher nearby 532 00:45:07.800 --> 00:45:13.039 and I right across the hall, because obviously that could be very dangerous. 533 00:45:14.519 --> 00:45:17.840 But I would I would after class was over, or I was in the 534 00:45:17.840 --> 00:45:22.400 studio making artwork until the student the school closed, until I was forced to 535 00:45:22.480 --> 00:45:27.159 leave. What grade you and what how about? How old were you? 536 00:45:27.559 --> 00:45:37.360 Well, that was pre s so it was probably like lateen so I graduated 537 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:42.199 high school when I was seventeen. I was a little bit younger than most 538 00:45:42.280 --> 00:45:45.480 I graduated. You know, I was in the class where I was a 539 00:45:45.480 --> 00:45:51.119 little bit younger than I should have been, and that was the other thing. 540 00:45:51.239 --> 00:45:53.000 I don't know how I got away with this, but when I was 541 00:45:53.039 --> 00:46:00.199 in high school, I would leave some of my classes like to say I 542 00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:04.239 had to go to the bathroom, and I would go to my art class 543 00:46:04.239 --> 00:46:07.280 where like there would be no class at that at that particular time. And 544 00:46:07.400 --> 00:46:10.400 I don't know how I got away with it on both ends, with the 545 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:15.599 teacher, that was my art teacher, allowing me to allowing me to stay 546 00:46:15.639 --> 00:46:21.599 there and and play around with the clay and the teacher. That was that. 547 00:46:21.599 --> 00:46:24.519 That was teaching the class that I was actually disappearing from, but I 548 00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:30.039 would I would disappear from class and I would go to the art studio and 549 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:35.320 I would just make artwork and that sounds like a blast. So what kind 550 00:46:35.320 --> 00:46:37.480 of kid were you in school like? What was your favorite sort of bands? 551 00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.880 What were you a geek or a job or a stoner or like John 552 00:46:40.960 --> 00:46:47.599 to any clift? I was heavy into punk rock. Hell, yeah, 553 00:46:47.599 --> 00:46:53.960 Susie and the bandshoes, I was absolutely obsessed with and then I got into 554 00:46:54.039 --> 00:47:01.519 like heavy metal, like Metallica. But the thing is is my taste and 555 00:47:01.639 --> 00:47:07.400 music is really, really vast. I absolutely love classical music, I love 556 00:47:07.480 --> 00:47:15.280 dance music, I love Salsa. In fact, my my within the last 557 00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:23.840 maybe sixsh months I've had, I've had the ability more and more, and 558 00:47:23.960 --> 00:47:30.280 now that my medication is changing, to make the decision to distract my brain 559 00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:37.880 before it before you know, I generally wake up depressed and what I'm doing 560 00:47:37.920 --> 00:47:42.400 now is saying, okay, I'm depressed, how can I change this? 561 00:47:43.159 --> 00:47:50.719 And I put on Salsa and it makes me so fucking happy and it's it's 562 00:47:50.760 --> 00:47:53.760 making that decision for myself. Is Really, really. Basically, what it 563 00:47:53.800 --> 00:48:00.000 does is it allows my brain to it inner. It interferes with what's naturally 564 00:48:00.000 --> 00:48:07.320 going on in my brain and replaces it with something healthy. Yeah, agree, 565 00:48:07.360 --> 00:48:10.360 that's so huge too, because music, it's a powerful motivator, for 566 00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:15.519 better or for worse. Yeah, and if you're sitting there listening to your 567 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:19.920 funeral song playlist, yeah, you probably going to be sad and you probably 568 00:48:19.960 --> 00:48:23.679 going to send yourself into a downward spiral. And it is as simple sometimes 569 00:48:23.719 --> 00:48:28.159 a switching over to a more upbeat song. I can't believe it. It's 570 00:48:28.280 --> 00:48:31.559 really is Hogwash, bullshit, but it works for me a lot. I 571 00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:36.639 have some really crazy upbeat I'll share some songs with you later, like entire 572 00:48:36.679 --> 00:48:40.639 playlists like wow, I feel like I'm in a s car, commercial kind 573 00:48:40.679 --> 00:48:45.000 of songs, you know, just loves roaming through life, like the Jetson's 574 00:48:45.039 --> 00:48:52.280 just interesting classical music, or like this resurgence of jazz music after the Vietnam 575 00:48:52.360 --> 00:48:55.119 War, like cool jazz stuff like that, really interesting, nice and I 576 00:48:55.159 --> 00:48:59.800 think maybe it came from us both being because I was like punk rock and 577 00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.480 then metal and then once you're in the metal, you're in the music music, 578 00:49:02.519 --> 00:49:06.480 you're in the musical music. So it kind of opens the door to 579 00:49:06.559 --> 00:49:09.000 all of the rest of it, for sure. Yeah, so I'm a 580 00:49:09.000 --> 00:49:15.360 big fan of music and I also have to be very I also have to 581 00:49:15.360 --> 00:49:20.800 be very careful with music because if I I can listen to classical music and 582 00:49:20.840 --> 00:49:28.199 it will, it will put me into a deep depression, because I don't 583 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:32.360 really know how to explain it, except that I feel like with music, 584 00:49:32.800 --> 00:49:39.159 I feel like the human body becomes like an onion and like certain music can 585 00:49:39.199 --> 00:49:44.840 like penetrate every single layer of that onion all the way to the very, 586 00:49:44.920 --> 00:49:50.559 very very core. And then's what classical music does to me it and so 587 00:49:50.599 --> 00:49:54.159 I had to be very, very careful with classical music because it could it 588 00:49:54.239 --> 00:50:00.320 just brings out this it just puts me so deep into my body that I 589 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:04.679 can't get out of it. So I hope that be really so I had 590 00:50:04.760 --> 00:50:07.800 to be really careful with classical music. Yeah, yeah, I have a 591 00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:14.239 playlist, I think it's curated by apple, called melancholy strings, all the 592 00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:19.320 old great classic you know, Mozart and all the folks, but also their 593 00:50:19.320 --> 00:50:23.079 most all just their most melancholy bit and like wow, this is depressing. 594 00:50:24.119 --> 00:50:30.039 Yeah, it's pretty wild. Yeah, there's just something about a classical music 595 00:50:30.119 --> 00:50:37.880 that to me, I don't know, it's it penetrates the body in a 596 00:50:37.920 --> 00:50:43.239 different way than all the other music does. and and like heavy metal penetrates 597 00:50:43.280 --> 00:50:47.039 the body in a different way than than any other music does. So I 598 00:50:47.039 --> 00:50:55.119 think it just, you know, it's it. Every type of music kind 599 00:50:55.159 --> 00:51:06.880 of it has a place inside of your body. That's it's just like people, 600 00:51:07.039 --> 00:51:12.119 like I was telling my friend yesterday that my friendships are like. For 601 00:51:12.199 --> 00:51:19.480 me, I feel like I'm like a clothing dresser and the friends that fit 602 00:51:19.519 --> 00:51:27.239 into one drawer wouldn't fit into another drawer and like like the like like the 603 00:51:27.639 --> 00:51:31.280 same people. The same people wouldn't fit in the same drawer together. Right, 604 00:51:31.360 --> 00:51:36.559 right, and I just see you organized it dif friends and no, 605 00:51:36.880 --> 00:51:39.760 no, don't put them, they don't go there, over there, upl 606 00:51:39.920 --> 00:51:44.679 the right there. Yeah, I mean my friends are really so, so 607 00:51:44.760 --> 00:51:52.760 different from one another that they they have to be compartmentalized. But I always 608 00:51:52.039 --> 00:51:58.360 but I always say if I were forced onto a desert island, every single 609 00:51:58.400 --> 00:52:00.519 one of those people I would want. And I don't have a lot of 610 00:52:00.519 --> 00:52:05.079 friends, which, you know, could be a good it could be bad 611 00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:08.039 whatever. Well, twitter has kind of filled that space for me. But 612 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:13.800 if I were forced on to a desert island for the rest of my life, 613 00:52:14.320 --> 00:52:17.719 all of my friends I would choose to have on that island. They 614 00:52:17.760 --> 00:52:23.199 may not interact very well together, but I would still want and write those 615 00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:28.840 people. Would still want. Which one of those people on that island? 616 00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:31.480 If ivited all friends to the island, there would be a war and then 617 00:52:31.519 --> 00:52:37.519 eventually they'd all realize I was to blame because I was the common denominator. 618 00:52:38.000 --> 00:52:44.639 That's the ASSHOLE, the broadest here kill erm I sokay, yeah, I 619 00:52:44.679 --> 00:52:47.559 really don't think my friend. I really don't think that my friends would get 620 00:52:47.559 --> 00:52:52.840 along with one another because they're so different. But aren't by all. My 621 00:52:52.840 --> 00:52:55.280 friends are cordial, of course. My friend just have such vastly different taste 622 00:52:55.360 --> 00:52:59.400 that a lot of them would think things that my other friends into are just 623 00:52:59.440 --> 00:53:04.920 stupid or lame and I want I get it whatever, and I wonder what 624 00:53:05.000 --> 00:53:07.719 that says about us. Does that mean that we're like more complicated and we 625 00:53:07.760 --> 00:53:13.280 have more drawers than other people? I don't know, or maybe more judge 626 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:15.400 and more anxious about that kind of stuff, because it would probably be fine. 627 00:53:15.440 --> 00:53:20.760 They probably all get it flung together and they might even be closer friends 628 00:53:20.760 --> 00:53:23.199 with each other then with me. Maybe that's the big fear overall. I 629 00:53:23.199 --> 00:53:29.320 don't want them talking to each other because in the breakup with me. Yeah, 630 00:53:29.360 --> 00:53:30.760 well, I don't think that would happen with my friends, but that's 631 00:53:30.760 --> 00:53:37.159 definitely a legitimate concern of mine in real life. Like, like what I 632 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:42.519 I'm a jealous friend, like I want to know that you're my best friend, 633 00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:46.440 because if I'm not, like I'm devastated. You gotta be like one 634 00:53:46.559 --> 00:53:50.599 or two on the speed dial, please. And it's not like it's not 635 00:53:50.679 --> 00:53:54.280 like a arrogant thing. It's it's like the opposite. It's like I want, 636 00:53:54.440 --> 00:54:00.719 I you know, I'm used to being unimportant in life. I'm used 637 00:54:00.760 --> 00:54:08.559 to being unimportant, unimportant to my mom and being a nuisance that I want, 638 00:54:08.639 --> 00:54:13.840 I want. Yeah, you kind of need that confirmation that I am 639 00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:16.639 important, am I? Yeah, okay, yeah, because I wasn't important 640 00:54:16.679 --> 00:54:21.360 to the people that I should be the most important too. Yeah, yeah, 641 00:54:21.400 --> 00:54:23.840 yeah, I get that. What what are you doing moving forward? 642 00:54:23.880 --> 00:54:27.519 So, like what's coming up next to you? I mean you're an artist. 643 00:54:27.679 --> 00:54:30.480 I doubt you like plan out these great projects, but do you have 644 00:54:30.519 --> 00:54:34.159 anything in mind that you like to try out next with regards to your art 645 00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:37.400 the have you ever thought about getting into like digital sculpting, like D or 646 00:54:37.440 --> 00:54:44.159 anything like that? I think that at this particular moment it might be a 647 00:54:44.159 --> 00:54:50.119 little too complicated for my brain. YEA, at this moment. You know, 648 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:54.920 maybe it won't be at some point, but yeah, what I right 649 00:54:54.960 --> 00:55:00.119 now? I really need to get my hands into some paint again, and 650 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:05.880 so my future, my future goal is to really really delve heavy into pure 651 00:55:05.920 --> 00:55:14.199 abstraction, like my like my profile pick right now is, for the most 652 00:55:14.239 --> 00:55:19.920 part, pretty pure abstract. There's some identofile opt identifiable objects and they're like 653 00:55:20.000 --> 00:55:25.760 houses. But that's really my future focus at this particular moment. Is Anna 654 00:55:25.840 --> 00:55:32.599 also photography, I. I. I've been really trying to figure out what 655 00:55:32.599 --> 00:55:37.559 what photography means to me and how it fits into my world, and I've 656 00:55:37.920 --> 00:55:44.360 kind of figured it out that. See, photography is it the the act 657 00:55:44.519 --> 00:55:50.079 of going out and trying to find your picture. It it's again, it 658 00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:53.719 slows my brain down and it lets me to focus on something outside of my 659 00:55:53.760 --> 00:55:59.760 brain. So it's like. For me, artwork is like creating. It's 660 00:55:59.840 --> 00:56:05.480 like taking my head off and throwing across the room, and that's that's why 661 00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:14.679 I I'm not a I love conceptual art and and I wish that I had 662 00:56:14.719 --> 00:56:19.920 the build, the ability to say, okay, I'm gonna, you know, 663 00:56:20.639 --> 00:56:23.440 I'm going to make this piece of artwork today and I want this to 664 00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:27.840 be the message. I can't do that because if I do that, I 665 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:34.480 get lost inside my head and and then I start to become manic, and 666 00:56:34.519 --> 00:56:39.559 so I have to keep myself outside of my brain because it becomes a dangers 667 00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.800 place. Yeah, yeah, so that right. You have to keep yourself 668 00:56:43.840 --> 00:56:47.920 separate from the mind, that is controlling yourself. Yeah, yeah, totally. 669 00:56:49.480 --> 00:56:52.360 So photography is something I really kind of want to start. I have 670 00:56:52.440 --> 00:57:00.960 a huge body of of work that I I'm going to start listing at some 671 00:57:00.039 --> 00:57:05.159 point. I do have one small collection out right now. It's I think 672 00:57:05.159 --> 00:57:12.679 it's like seven pieces, and it's it's of photograph. I usually find that 673 00:57:12.760 --> 00:57:16.440 I don't I don't want to take a picture of the forest, I want 674 00:57:16.480 --> 00:57:20.719 to take a picture of the little things that I find inside the forest. 675 00:57:20.920 --> 00:57:25.559 Like to me, that's like the hunting that I like is finding the little 676 00:57:25.559 --> 00:57:34.400 details. Yeah, and so that's the act of doing that is really is 677 00:57:34.400 --> 00:57:38.800 really gratifying, and so I kind of want to start figuring out how to 678 00:57:38.800 --> 00:57:49.320 put my previous photography out there, while having a future goal of learning how 679 00:57:49.360 --> 00:57:53.280 to actually use my camera so that, yes, that can actually because, 680 00:57:53.360 --> 00:57:59.400 you know, as good as iphones are, there's a lot that you can't 681 00:57:59.519 --> 00:58:05.360 do with it. And so I that's a future goal, is to do 682 00:58:05.440 --> 00:58:09.239 more with my photography. That's awesome. I look forward to that. I 683 00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:15.239 was interested in what you just said about making pure abstract. Where does your 684 00:58:15.239 --> 00:58:22.639 mind go when you were trying to paint or painting abstract? It goes to 685 00:58:22.920 --> 00:58:29.440 this material and it stays out of it stays outside of the brain. Like 686 00:58:29.440 --> 00:58:34.039 that, I'm truly able to just separate myself from my brain when I make, 687 00:58:34.800 --> 00:58:39.360 when I when I do pure abstract, because I don't have to worry 688 00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:44.599 about the message, I don't have to worry about, Oh, you know, 689 00:58:45.199 --> 00:58:52.159 this this I that I'm drawing really looks like shit or it removes myself 690 00:58:52.320 --> 00:58:57.320 from any kind of thought process and it allows me to simply look at the 691 00:58:57.360 --> 00:59:04.400 material and and dance with it. You know, it's yeah, like I 692 00:59:04.440 --> 00:59:09.360 allow the dance, I allow the my partner, to be the leader, 693 00:59:10.360 --> 00:59:15.039 because if I try to be the lead, if I try to be the 694 00:59:15.119 --> 00:59:20.119 lead dancer, I get too stuck inside my brain and then that's where the 695 00:59:20.199 --> 00:59:23.599 danger happens. Well, I'm glad youing to glad you ask that, because 696 00:59:23.639 --> 00:59:28.760 I really hadn't. I had really hadn't thought about that. Well, and 697 00:59:28.800 --> 00:59:31.480 I think about that too, now that we're talking about when I try to 698 00:59:31.480 --> 00:59:36.559 paint something abstract, I am, you know, like ecart totally. I'm 699 00:59:36.559 --> 00:59:38.199 trying to be now, living the now, in the moment, right, 700 00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:42.679 and so of course the texture of the canvas, the feel of the paint, 701 00:59:42.920 --> 00:59:45.199 the way it's squishing past the Spatula, I love it. I love 702 00:59:45.320 --> 00:59:51.000 all of that. But I have this weird desire, after I've painted something, 703 00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:53.400 to try to identify what the Fuck I just painted. So people come 704 00:59:53.400 --> 00:59:57.320 over like, Oh, what is it? And I feel compellable, like 705 00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.360 it's a it's a coy feel ish. I mean it, but it's not 706 01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:04.159 a cause. I don't no idea what is just just a Blob of pain 707 01:00:04.239 --> 01:00:09.320 that smeared rind and it just weird to try to have to I guess defend 708 01:00:09.400 --> 01:00:13.119 my art as as at this what is it? What is it? I'm 709 01:00:13.119 --> 01:00:15.320 like, I don't know. It's just not my answer to that is, 710 01:00:15.360 --> 01:00:20.639 who gives a shit what it is? That's my answer to that. Yeah, 711 01:00:20.440 --> 01:00:22.199 I want and you could get all like a poetic like it is what 712 01:00:22.239 --> 01:00:25.280 you think it is and all of it, but it I just don't like 713 01:00:25.360 --> 01:00:29.000 the feeling inside of me, like why do I have a feeling inside of 714 01:00:29.000 --> 01:00:30.719 me that I have to explain what it is? I don't have that feeling. 715 01:00:31.079 --> 01:00:37.320 I have that feeling when I'm around people that don't appreciate art. Because 716 01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:46.599 so here's an example when, about thirteen ish years ago, I I've always 717 01:00:46.639 --> 01:00:51.760 focused on trading cards. So those are two and a half by three and 718 01:00:51.760 --> 01:01:00.320 a half pieces of artwork. Yeah, and I was doing some Xerox has 719 01:01:00.719 --> 01:01:06.239 on a color copier of my artwork and the lady that worked there asked me 720 01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:10.079 if I was a teacher because she thought that I was like a like a 721 01:01:10.159 --> 01:01:15.559 kinderschool, a kinderk garden type, you know, like young kids, and 722 01:01:15.960 --> 01:01:24.599 a part of me was embarrassed because I knew that she didn't see the beauty 723 01:01:24.840 --> 01:01:31.639 of shed and see the beauty of art. The same way that I did 724 01:01:31.639 --> 01:01:37.760 and that it doesn't have to be drawn perfectly right. So that's when I 725 01:01:37.800 --> 01:01:39.440 do get that. That's when I do get that way where I feel like 726 01:01:39.480 --> 01:01:44.280 I have to explain myself. But when I'm but when I'm with people who 727 01:01:44.280 --> 01:01:49.360 truly appreciate art, I allow my art to be whatever the hell it is, 728 01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:52.559 okay, and whatever they want it to be. You know. Yeah, 729 01:01:52.559 --> 01:01:57.480 I'm with that. I'm totally okay with that. Like if you see, 730 01:01:57.519 --> 01:02:01.800 if if I see a horse and you see an alien, I'm like 731 01:02:01.960 --> 01:02:06.519 hey, that's cool. Now I have a whole nother way of looking at 732 01:02:06.559 --> 01:02:10.079 this. Yeah, yeah, exactly, and I think that you're bringing it 733 01:02:10.119 --> 01:02:15.159 up in this kind of friendwork. I think my issue with having the feeling 734 01:02:15.199 --> 01:02:20.440 that I have to explain myself my quote unquote art is that a lot of 735 01:02:20.440 --> 01:02:23.159 my life I've worked as a designer, as a graphic designer, so I 736 01:02:23.159 --> 01:02:30.079 literally had to explain my design decision. But but with art it's totally different. 737 01:02:30.119 --> 01:02:34.239 I think a lot of times people can plate artists with designers and yeah, 738 01:02:34.320 --> 01:02:36.719 same, they can't be the same. You can definitely be both, 739 01:02:36.800 --> 01:02:40.840 but the act of design to me is you're created artwork with the purpose intended 740 01:02:42.400 --> 01:02:45.599 with, with true art, you create an art for the sake of the 741 01:02:45.639 --> 01:02:52.400 creation itself. Yeah, Yeah, interesting. Well, let's we know everybody 742 01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:54.920 here, but let's take it open for some questions and you guys make up 743 01:02:54.960 --> 01:03:00.400 some questions, because I want to see how this works for the podcast, 744 01:03:00.400 --> 01:03:04.679 because I want to see how it comes across after we the recording is finished. 745 01:03:04.679 --> 01:03:09.000 All right. So, Angie, make up a question and turn on 746 01:03:09.039 --> 01:03:15.639 your bike and ask a question and just probably outside getting the Sun Tan with 747 01:03:15.679 --> 01:03:23.679 the dogs and just left us on US Sun Tan Jesus and yeah, something 748 01:03:23.760 --> 01:03:32.280 out there. There's no sun in Chicago. Man, that's funny. I 749 01:03:32.400 --> 01:03:37.599 was in the other room, though. Will give me a moment. That's 750 01:03:37.679 --> 01:03:42.360 cool. I love that. And Eric, Eric, I need you to 751 01:03:42.440 --> 01:03:45.599 come up with a question. I hope he's listening. And then not like 752 01:03:45.800 --> 01:03:50.400 in the in me and the backdrop somewhere. That's where I think a lot 753 01:03:50.400 --> 01:03:52.880 of people do. But yeah, Chris. So, Chris is a Podcaster 754 01:03:53.000 --> 01:03:58.320 I've interviewed on my show before and I think he's both supportive but what we 755 01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:02.320 do here also probably learning about podcasting, just like me. So anyway, 756 01:04:02.519 --> 01:04:05.280 yeah, this is cool. I like the way it's turning out. I 757 01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:09.920 hope the audio sounds listenable, because it sounds good from here, doesn't it? 758 01:04:10.639 --> 01:04:15.239 Yeah, definitely cool. PLUS HELP IT trends. I hope it translates 759 01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:20.639 well to to to podcast land. Well, it's a great conversation and those 760 01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:25.760 always do. And my thought being that if the audio quality is suitable, 761 01:04:25.760 --> 01:04:29.280 then people will listen to the podcast and might be inclined to come back and 762 01:04:29.320 --> 01:04:31.840 start a twitter your account where they did not have one earlier, and then 763 01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:34.920 they could join us and hang out and like like you and a lot of 764 01:04:34.920 --> 01:04:41.039 people, the first time public speaking or podcasting is through connections made by twitter, 765 01:04:41.079 --> 01:04:45.039 and these kind of connections change people's Perspective on things quite a bit. 766 01:04:45.079 --> 01:04:46.719 Once you're confident knowing that Oh, I could speak up, I can, 767 01:04:46.800 --> 01:04:50.519 I can speak for myself in public. I think it makes a big difference. 768 01:04:50.599 --> 01:04:57.599 Yeah, and and and being able to both. Okay, so you 769 01:04:57.639 --> 01:05:01.480 support me and I support you because if I say hey, listen to this 770 01:05:01.599 --> 01:05:06.320 episode, you know it's it's a it's a great tool for me and it's 771 01:05:06.360 --> 01:05:11.480 great toolfull you, for you. You know. Yeah, I love that. 772 01:05:11.599 --> 01:05:15.880 I Love I love being able to have that kind of CO comusual like 773 01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:24.719 helping each other out. You know. Yes, it's kind of like emotional 774 01:05:24.760 --> 01:05:29.320 network without being to market. Yeah, advertise you about it. Yeah, 775 01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:31.599 yeah, I think that's important. Angie n Ike had that same kind of 776 01:05:31.599 --> 01:05:35.159 work ethic from when we work with I don't know if you knew, but 777 01:05:35.239 --> 01:05:40.519 Angie and I met in San Francisco when she used to book punk rock bands 778 01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:42.840 and I was in one of the punk rock bands. That's how we might 779 01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:47.199 yeah, yeah, and now we're but we both live in Oklahoma City and 780 01:05:47.480 --> 01:05:53.119 go take pictures of the sunset and try to make anypteas and shit like that. 781 01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:57.199 Yes, small world, that's so funny. I have a question, 782 01:05:58.320 --> 01:06:04.320 Yay, so I'm curious if there's a color that you have an aversion to, 783 01:06:04.960 --> 01:06:10.039 like any color or any number of colors that you have an aversion to 784 01:06:10.159 --> 01:06:14.679 that you don't like to use in your artwork. She has an adversion to 785 01:06:14.840 --> 01:06:25.440 my question, a version of the questions about colors. Sorry, guys, 786 01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:33.599 my my along with my knee, leaving my my husband is from Morocco and 787 01:06:33.760 --> 01:06:41.119 he flew out with her and he's going to be visiting his parents and I've 788 01:06:41.159 --> 01:06:44.440 been waiting for him to call me. So that's what that was all about, 789 01:06:44.480 --> 01:06:46.679 and I said, listen, I'm I'm doing space right now. Can 790 01:06:46.719 --> 01:06:53.559 you call me to time? As I knows, I know he's okay. 791 01:06:53.599 --> 01:06:58.239 That's what's important. Yeah, yeah, for sure. You've got quite the 792 01:06:58.280 --> 01:07:00.920 international flare going. I know, I know, I know. I love 793 01:07:01.039 --> 01:07:04.239 that. That's awesome. It's back to the ADHD. We love the vanity. 794 01:07:04.440 --> 01:07:10.760 Chris laughed, I'm sure. Yeah, Chris is the Chris does tubs 795 01:07:10.760 --> 01:07:15.000 a podcast, though. Cool, so he's probably a using our ideas. 796 01:07:15.199 --> 01:07:17.039 He's a good guy. I just had a he was on the podcast the 797 01:07:17.039 --> 01:07:20.199 other day. But anyhow, I got to wrap up to have another podcast 798 01:07:20.199 --> 01:07:25.360 coming up in half an hour. That I'm okay for, and this sounded 799 01:07:25.400 --> 01:07:27.760 great. I know you like to stay on spaces forever. I don't know 800 01:07:27.760 --> 01:07:30.400 how we could switch this or the three of you want to up on your 801 01:07:30.400 --> 01:07:32.599 own space, but I really appreciate you hang it out. Eric. Thanks 802 01:07:32.599 --> 01:07:36.559 for sticking out the whole time. I'm not a I'm more of a podcaster 803 01:07:36.679 --> 01:07:41.880 than a spaces person, so I don't go for eight hours like Marcie does, 804 01:07:42.400 --> 01:07:45.760 like a job. That's probably what Burns you out, Marcie, doing 805 01:07:45.800 --> 01:07:49.280 spaces for eight hours. You know what I've only done. I've only I 806 01:07:49.280 --> 01:07:55.599 did one space for like fuck, I don't even know how long, and 807 01:07:55.639 --> 01:08:00.880 then like five. It was a long yeah, but I yeah, I'm 808 01:08:00.880 --> 01:08:03.639 trying to find figure out what my next steps are and but no, I 809 01:08:03.760 --> 01:08:09.960 do go in and out of spaces a lot. Yeah, but yeah, 810 01:08:10.519 --> 01:08:15.199 it's definitely right now, like what my kind of getting my feet back in 811 01:08:15.239 --> 01:08:18.319 there, but I do have and I am trying to figure out what to 812 01:08:18.359 --> 01:08:24.319 do here. So well, you're doing so far, so good. Thanks. 813 01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:28.239 I like this format pretty good now that I figured out how to make 814 01:08:28.279 --> 01:08:32.720 it sound okay and work the buttons kind of. So if y'all want to 815 01:08:32.720 --> 01:08:35.680 try this again on another day, I'm happy to host. You are and 816 01:08:35.840 --> 01:08:41.039 Angie, whenever you and whenever you want to. I'm happy with it because 817 01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:46.279 I just I know you don't like compliments, but it's you're extremely talented host. 818 01:08:47.439 --> 01:08:53.199 No, I'm serious and that and anyway, so when you are, 819 01:08:53.319 --> 01:09:03.479 when you are up for doing there I and now back to the wall.