Could Emotional Dysregulation Be Another Type Of Spectrum Disorder?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.080 --> 00:00:13.910 It's only and now it's online Bible this stylecom motions with Bible style. Welcome 2 00:00:13.949 --> 00:00:18.269 back to buy polar style. I'm Johnny Emotions and today my very special guest, 3 00:00:18.710 --> 00:00:24.780 you may remember her from previous episodes, is becky from that be word 4 00:00:25.100 --> 00:00:29.019 podcast. How are you doing, Becky? Hey, John Idan, pretty 5 00:00:29.059 --> 00:00:33.539 good. How are you doing? Things are moving along and you know, 6 00:00:33.659 --> 00:00:38.090 I hit you up on twitter the other day because I was reading the interesting 7 00:00:38.250 --> 00:00:42.369 book and there was a passage in the book that got me to think it 8 00:00:42.969 --> 00:00:48.250 and I wanted to have a discussion about something that only you could help me 9 00:00:48.409 --> 00:00:53.600 discuss. M That my other friends on my other podcasts are into this stuff, 10 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:58.280 so I thought you would be perfect, especially because your podcast, that 11 00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:06.750 b word, covers things like bipolar and borderline personality disorder. So you're already 12 00:01:06.790 --> 00:01:10.950 halfway there. So, if you don't mind, let me just read about 13 00:01:10.989 --> 00:01:15.269 two or three sentences that prompted me to reach out to you. Cool. 14 00:01:15.069 --> 00:01:19.700 Yeah, all right. So I'll just pick it up here in the middle 15 00:01:19.739 --> 00:01:30.060 of the paragraph. If Mania expresses anxiety, depression and under arousal express shame. 16 00:01:30.019 --> 00:01:36.090 Shame, like anxiety, is an attachment emotion. Quote. Whenever someone 17 00:01:36.209 --> 00:01:42.689 becomes significant to us. Whenever another's caring, respect or valuing matters, the 18 00:01:42.810 --> 00:01:49.239 possibility for generating shame emerges. Right psychologist Gershen Kaufman, the origin of shame 19 00:01:49.799 --> 00:01:53.640 is the feeling of having been cut off from the parents, of having lost 20 00:01:53.680 --> 00:02:00.799 the connection, if only momentarily. It cannot be helped. It occurs unavoidably 21 00:02:00.319 --> 00:02:07.430 as part of maturing. So in thinking about that, I started to wonder 22 00:02:07.629 --> 00:02:13.949 if you know how autism is a spectrum, aspurger's autism and that sort of 23 00:02:14.030 --> 00:02:19.500 thing, and it's also kind of a mysterious impairment, let's call it, 24 00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:27.180 much in the same way that bipolar, borderline and even anxiety to some extent, 25 00:02:27.219 --> 00:02:30.289 although anxieties quite a bit more understood. But especially with a bipolar and 26 00:02:30.849 --> 00:02:38.009 borderline, they appear to have many similar symptoms. Almost, okay, a 27 00:02:38.090 --> 00:02:39.930 cause and effect type of thing. One of the bigger things that people talk 28 00:02:40.009 --> 00:02:46.520 about borderline is the inability to maintain relationships. It's kind of chaotic in that 29 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:52.759 sense. MMM, but of course if you are feeling shame and anxious because 30 00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:55.319 of mood swings, then yeah, of course it's going to be hard to 31 00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:58.990 maintain relationship ships. In other words, what I'm getting at is, if 32 00:02:58.990 --> 00:03:05.509 you have bipolar disorder and display those symptoms, would they not cause the same 33 00:03:05.669 --> 00:03:09.349 problems that a borderline diagnosis would cause? And then vice versa? If your 34 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:15.620 borderline and can't maintain relationships as easily as a fully functioning person, let's say, 35 00:03:16.259 --> 00:03:22.500 then might that cause shame and anxiety apparent in a bipolar person? Right? 36 00:03:23.419 --> 00:03:25.259 Yeah, I know, there's so much overlap it's hard to tell, 37 00:03:27.169 --> 00:03:30.530 like one where one ends in the other begins. So I think there's definitely 38 00:03:30.569 --> 00:03:36.650 a likelihood that they're on the same spectrum. And okay, so this is 39 00:03:36.889 --> 00:03:43.240 the part that's kind of the mind fuck. Excuse my language. He right. 40 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.080 I'm reading a book on Add adhd, and that passage I just read, 41 00:03:47.439 --> 00:03:54.710 I just swapped out the words mania with hyperactivity and depression with lethargy. 42 00:03:54.909 --> 00:04:00.830 The actual paragraph reads, if hyperactivity expresses anxiety, lethargy and under arousal express 43 00:04:00.909 --> 00:04:05.069 shame. That's what got me thinking, like, wait a second, it's 44 00:04:05.669 --> 00:04:13.180 bipolar disorder is very similar to Adhd, to attention deficit disorder, in many 45 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:19.699 cases, including where we seem to get it from, which tends to be 46 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:26.129 the DNA from our parents brought into the real world in the context of your 47 00:04:26.410 --> 00:04:29.889 upbringing and the environment that you were raised in. Let's call it your programming. 48 00:04:30.250 --> 00:04:36.170 In other words, people are programmed to be add or Adhd, and 49 00:04:36.410 --> 00:04:41.279 I'm starting to think in the same way, maybe we are also programmed to 50 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:46.720 become bipolar. Those activities in that environment then trigger what people commonly call a 51 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:53.069 chemical imbalance, although that's kind of a misnomer. What do you think about 52 00:04:53.069 --> 00:04:56.029 that? I mean the fact that they're so closely resembled and that I could 53 00:04:56.029 --> 00:05:00.350 just simply switch out a couple of words, hyperactivity for mania, lethargy for 54 00:05:00.470 --> 00:05:03.949 depression, and the passage makes sense. Yeah, it does. Yeah, 55 00:05:03.949 --> 00:05:08.779 I would never have known that you switched out those words if you hadn't have 56 00:05:08.860 --> 00:05:15.779 told me. I never thought about the similaries between bipolar disorder and adhd before. 57 00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:21.850 Until, until I started reading about Adhd, I simply thought it was, 58 00:05:23.810 --> 00:05:27.689 hmm, hyperactivity, like, for lack of a better word, just 59 00:05:27.769 --> 00:05:33.889 spazzy kids running around outer control. That's my idea of hyperactivity and attention. 60 00:05:34.129 --> 00:05:38.040 Then on the other side, attention deficit disorder. I thought it was meant 61 00:05:38.079 --> 00:05:42.079 like the slow kids who couldn't pay attention. But I've since I've since found 62 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:47.439 out it's not that way. So apparently adhd and add a good metaphor they 63 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:54.589 included in this particular book, is so, say you have all these in 64 00:05:54.670 --> 00:05:59.670 neurons firing off in your head, like imagine their little cars, but they 65 00:05:59.709 --> 00:06:02.910 are cars with no drivers. They're dumb cars. They need a traffic cop 66 00:06:03.069 --> 00:06:06.540 to tell them where to go, which way to go, when to stop, 67 00:06:06.620 --> 00:06:13.220 when to go. Apparently, in the adhd mind that traffic cop is 68 00:06:13.300 --> 00:06:17.769 fallen asleep, so it's just kind of mayhem up there. Yeah, that's 69 00:06:17.810 --> 00:06:25.129 why they give people with adhd effectively speed. They give them something, some 70 00:06:25.329 --> 00:06:30.730 type of amphetamine product like riddling, that simply wakes up the traffic cop, 71 00:06:30.170 --> 00:06:33.639 because it seems counter intuitive to me, like why would you give a hyperactive 72 00:06:33.680 --> 00:06:39.720 person speed? Well, now I know why. They give it the apparently 73 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:44.360 the hyperactivity is just a lack of control of the automobiles crashing through each other 74 00:06:44.399 --> 00:06:47.550 through the intersection, and the speed simply wakes up the traffic cop and allows 75 00:06:47.589 --> 00:06:54.509 them to pause and make better decisions based on the incoming data. Some that 76 00:06:54.589 --> 00:06:59.470 I'm thinking. Well, how's that? You know that disregulation of those types 77 00:06:59.509 --> 00:07:04.620 of emotions much different than bipolar disorder. Again, we're still addressing some kind 78 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:10.540 of traffic cops, some kind of, you know, organizer of thoughts, 79 00:07:11.819 --> 00:07:16.490 but the medicine that they've given us for bipolar disorders so much different. Oh 80 00:07:16.529 --> 00:07:21.370 yeah, it's the exact oppset. Yeah, yeah, in many cases for 81 00:07:21.490 --> 00:07:27.689 sure, like I'm not sure the mechanisms for antipsychotics, for example. But 82 00:07:27.810 --> 00:07:30.759 I know, and I discovered all this because I keep a list of all 83 00:07:30.759 --> 00:07:32.439 the meds I've been taking. I've been trying to work on this issue for 84 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:36.399 twenty years, right, and I think I've gone through all of them. 85 00:07:36.439 --> 00:07:41.240 I think there might be one new med for bipolar that's come out in the 86 00:07:41.279 --> 00:07:44.870 past year that I haven't taken. So I basically stopped. It vibrid. 87 00:07:45.069 --> 00:07:48.069 You ever tried vibrid? Hmm? No, yeah, it's a computed that 88 00:07:48.149 --> 00:07:53.029 one. Yeah, it's like two or three years old. May Be a 89 00:07:53.069 --> 00:07:55.829 little older than that, but I remember taking it. That was the last 90 00:07:55.870 --> 00:08:00.819 kind of antipsychotic bipolar specific med I took and none of them were having any 91 00:08:00.860 --> 00:08:05.579 effect. So I kept going back to different doctors and then I moved out 92 00:08:05.579 --> 00:08:09.139 of state to a different place and thought hey, I'll start fresh. I'm 93 00:08:09.180 --> 00:08:13.009 not going to tell them like, and we talked about this offline, when 94 00:08:13.209 --> 00:08:18.209 you get a diagnosis and it feels right and it says yeah, that fits, 95 00:08:18.250 --> 00:08:22.129 that's a reason. Like when I got diagnosed as bipolar, I thought, 96 00:08:22.329 --> 00:08:26.970 wow, okay, that explains x, Y and Z. So what 97 00:08:26.089 --> 00:08:28.600 do I do? I kind of put that on like a badge and the 98 00:08:28.720 --> 00:08:33.279 next time I go to a doctor I say, yeah, I have bipolar 99 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.720 disorder. Well, that doctors not gonna you know, it doesn't have much 100 00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:39.919 time. He's got another patient twenty minutes. He's just going to go with 101 00:08:39.039 --> 00:08:43.230 what I told him. It's not really his role to crack my brain open 102 00:08:43.269 --> 00:08:45.990 and start doing therapy on me right there. He's just going to go with 103 00:08:46.070 --> 00:08:48.590 what I told him. Give me the next MED that might work, so 104 00:08:48.789 --> 00:08:52.909 on and so forth. And like maybe you know as well as I, 105 00:08:52.070 --> 00:08:58.820 they don't like to give us depression meds, antidepressants, MMM, because they 106 00:08:58.860 --> 00:09:03.179 think, oh, it might make you more mannic. Well, if, 107 00:09:03.379 --> 00:09:09.100 if it's not mania, if you don't have bipolar disorder, then antidepressant won't 108 00:09:09.139 --> 00:09:11.610 be that bad for you. So here's where I ended up on this kind 109 00:09:11.610 --> 00:09:15.730 of spectrum discussion. I went to a doctor I said, look, I've 110 00:09:15.809 --> 00:09:20.169 tried everything. I'm super depressed. I've tried all of the antipsychotics that exist. 111 00:09:20.769 --> 00:09:26.600 Of never ever had antidepressants. Could be at least try. Like I'm 112 00:09:26.799 --> 00:09:33.080 my feeling. I'm feeling depressed and anxious. So this new doctor, who 113 00:09:33.080 --> 00:09:37.120 I didn't say anything about bipolar to, based on what I presented and how 114 00:09:37.200 --> 00:09:45.429 I looked and felt and all that, prescribed antidepressants and anxiety met. Interesting. 115 00:09:45.509 --> 00:09:50.149 Now the anxiety made it turned out after talking to others, was almost 116 00:09:50.190 --> 00:09:52.980 like a placebo. was like antihistamine. So it wasn't any hard. Wasn't 117 00:09:54.019 --> 00:09:56.740 like hardcore. Yeah, so on the same one, I think. Yeah, 118 00:09:56.940 --> 00:10:01.940 and yeah, okay, it made me shaky at first. Didn't really 119 00:10:01.980 --> 00:10:07.970 address the anxiety and the and the antidepressant I might have worked. I just 120 00:10:09.049 --> 00:10:13.090 couldn't tell. I'm still like generally depressed. So after a few months of 121 00:10:13.169 --> 00:10:16.330 this, I like, well, why am I still depressed? I thought 122 00:10:16.610 --> 00:10:20.049 I started to think a little deeper. I'm like, you know what it's 123 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:22.840 because I'm off track. Up If you can remember back the last time you 124 00:10:22.879 --> 00:10:28.759 were happy a lot of time just because you are engaged in your life. 125 00:10:28.039 --> 00:10:31.600 You are living on purpose. I guess is a good way to put it, 126 00:10:31.159 --> 00:10:35.750 you had a job you liked, you know, the living situation or 127 00:10:35.750 --> 00:10:41.149 your friends and family or social circles were in alignments, let's say, and 128 00:10:41.190 --> 00:10:43.750 you know, you just had a reason to get up each day and like 129 00:10:43.870 --> 00:10:46.870 that's what I'm missing. I'm just missing the engagement with my own life. 130 00:10:48.230 --> 00:10:50.580 So I worked backwards. I'm like, how about if I just engage my 131 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:56.940 life and see if that doesn't alleviate some of the depression and anxiety, my 132 00:10:56.059 --> 00:10:58.779 thought being that if I'm too busy living my life in a way that I 133 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:03.259 want to live, I won't have time to focus on the depression. It's 134 00:11:03.259 --> 00:11:07.929 not saying that I won't get depressed, but when I get depressed and focus 135 00:11:07.049 --> 00:11:11.809 on it, that's all I become is just depressed, depressed, depressed. 136 00:11:11.730 --> 00:11:20.120 HMM. Yeah, yeah, I've always wondered the same thing. I hyper 137 00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:26.879 like focusing too much on whatever illness you have there, it's depression or by 138 00:11:26.919 --> 00:11:33.269 board disorder or board inline, actually will make it worse. But then again, 139 00:11:33.350 --> 00:11:37.309 there's something to be said for understanding your illness. I mean saying that 140 00:11:37.509 --> 00:11:45.470 you are correctly diagnosed right. That's super, super important. I can't stress 141 00:11:45.509 --> 00:11:48.620 that enough. I think I brought it up in the newbies guy to bipolar 142 00:11:48.659 --> 00:11:52.940 disorder a couple of episodes ago, and the first thing is the diagnosis. 143 00:11:54.100 --> 00:11:58.460 Well, man, it is so critical to keep asking questions. So if 144 00:11:58.740 --> 00:12:03.570 you, the listener out there, just got diagnosed for the first time with 145 00:12:03.690 --> 00:12:09.850 bipolar, I would really hesitate kind of wearing that as your new superhero emblem. 146 00:12:09.250 --> 00:12:13.809 It might not be accurate and you might be chasing a phantom. Really, 147 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:16.840 if you're if it's an inaccurate diagnosis, and I'm not saying people are 148 00:12:18.120 --> 00:12:22.120 misdiagnosing people on purpose or maliciously, it just happens because it's such a complex 149 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:28.000 disorder. I'm just saying like, just because one doctor said you had this, 150 00:12:28.519 --> 00:12:31.269 it might have meant that he just read or she just read a book 151 00:12:31.269 --> 00:12:33.950 about it yesterday, and that's the top of their mind right now. And 152 00:12:35.429 --> 00:12:37.389 again, doctors in America don't have a lot of time to spend with you 153 00:12:37.990 --> 00:12:43.029 and therapy is expensive. So the doctor handing out the medicine is just going 154 00:12:43.029 --> 00:12:48.220 to try to relieve the symptoms that you present and it might be wrong, 155 00:12:48.659 --> 00:12:54.019 though diagnosis itself might be wrong. So I think it's important to keep seeing 156 00:12:54.139 --> 00:12:56.779 at least get a second opinion, maybe a third even. I'm not saying 157 00:12:56.820 --> 00:13:01.649 go shop around until you get the answer you want. Of course that would 158 00:13:01.649 --> 00:13:05.690 be counterproductive. I'm just saying that don't accept the first thing somebody throws on 159 00:13:05.769 --> 00:13:11.690 you, especially when it's so stigmatizing, like like bipolar disorder, for example, 160 00:13:11.850 --> 00:13:16.960 when I was talking about my depression and anxiety at the emergency room one 161 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:22.320 day here in Louisiana, versus California, boy, those doctors in the emergency 162 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.750 room had no problem when somebody had mentioned, not me, but somebody had 163 00:13:28.789 --> 00:13:33.269 mentioned borderline. One of the doctors, like the Er surgeon or something, 164 00:13:33.750 --> 00:13:35.429 rolled their eyes like Oh, yeah, you don't want that. Yes, 165 00:13:35.470 --> 00:13:39.669 law calls. I'm like what, they still think that way here? Like 166 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.220 medical doctors in an ear in a, you know, major city, in 167 00:13:43.259 --> 00:13:50.940 a town in America or whatever, are still stigmatizing people with bipolar and borderline. 168 00:13:50.460 --> 00:13:54.539 So if you're yeah, if you're new to the game, let's say, 169 00:13:54.220 --> 00:14:01.529 just be really careful on accepting the diagnosis at first. Don't resist it 170 00:14:01.649 --> 00:14:05.809 if it's accurate, don't, like I said, don't shop around to get 171 00:14:05.809 --> 00:14:09.730 the answer you want, but man get a second opinion or a third opinion 172 00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:13.919 so that you know where you might be on the spectrum, because after twenty 173 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:18.960 years of taken antipsychotics, maybe I'm not bipolar at all anyway, which is 174 00:14:18.039 --> 00:14:24.000 kind of fortunate that I called the show bipolar style instead of I have bipolar 175 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:28.909 disorder and make maybe it's kind of sort of and I don't really have a 176 00:14:28.950 --> 00:14:35.710 problem shifting or changing or evolving with what I learn. How many times have 177 00:14:35.830 --> 00:14:39.899 you gone to the doctor to get a diagnosis and did you accept your first 178 00:14:39.100 --> 00:14:48.460 bipolar disorder diagnosis? I did. It made months. So a lot of 179 00:14:48.580 --> 00:14:56.730 the things kind of clicked when when I got diagnosed and I never really questioned 180 00:14:56.809 --> 00:15:00.889 it. I didn't always take my meds like I was supposed to, but 181 00:15:00.889 --> 00:15:07.559 I never questioned that that I might have my pholey disorder. But as far 182 00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:13.440 as borderline goes, I think even more so that even that seemed to fit 183 00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:18.600 my symptoms even more. HMM. Yeah, sometimes I think, especially the 184 00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:24.110 more I read. I was just reading borderline symptoms earlier before we got on 185 00:15:24.190 --> 00:15:28.190 the air. Sometimes I think those are just the result of the other disorders, 186 00:15:28.669 --> 00:15:33.350 like if you're super anxious, super depressed, if you have bipolar like 187 00:15:33.549 --> 00:15:39.659 mania and depression, will having having those would cause the symptoms that are collectively 188 00:15:39.740 --> 00:15:43.820 called borderline personality disorder, and I'm like, that's not fair to call the 189 00:15:43.980 --> 00:15:48.419 symptoms of collection of symptoms from other disorder a new disorder the like. Where 190 00:15:48.460 --> 00:15:52.330 does that stop? You know, I was thinking about that the other day 191 00:15:52.370 --> 00:15:58.529 actually, and I was thinking that it might have been the other way around, 192 00:16:00.929 --> 00:16:06.919 because it seems to me that a lot of the things that create borderline 193 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:14.240 symptoms happen when you're a lot younger than than is normal. We then diploy 194 00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:18.269 disorder easually presents itself. Right, right, yeah, so I was thinking 195 00:16:18.309 --> 00:16:22.789 it might be the other way around, that having borderline personalities order makes you 196 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:29.789 more likely to be diagnosed with bipolar disorder because of, you know, the 197 00:16:29.909 --> 00:16:34.100 mood swings essentially. Yeah, yeah, the things you present just line up 198 00:16:34.179 --> 00:16:41.940 with Oh, this new diagnosis and, yeah, the borderline thing. When 199 00:16:41.019 --> 00:16:45.539 you read the symptoms of borderline, I don't know, maybe it's because I 200 00:16:45.659 --> 00:16:48.730 have it or something, but they seem like things that will Geez, this 201 00:16:48.850 --> 00:16:52.730 is like a horoscope, you know. Anybody could have these symptoms to some 202 00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:56.450 extent. Of sure, if they get bad, then yeah, you're going 203 00:16:56.490 --> 00:16:59.649 to have a problem. But when I read the symptoms like at. Most 204 00:16:59.690 --> 00:17:03.240 people I know have these, including people I know that never see a psychiatrist 205 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:07.000 or a therapist, that I'm like, well, this is just like a 206 00:17:07.079 --> 00:17:11.559 horoscope or fortune cookie, just like like. But then when you get that 207 00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:14.640 diagnosis of bipolar, it's like, oh my gosh, this is a serious 208 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:18.430 medical condition, only because they can treat it with pills like a they don't 209 00:17:18.670 --> 00:17:23.670 normally start you off with pills when you have borderline, like to my regulation, 210 00:17:23.710 --> 00:17:26.549 I don't. I've never been given any kind of medication for borderline. 211 00:17:26.589 --> 00:17:33.859 Have you not specifically now I think that sometimes they'll give you like anti anxiety 212 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:40.619 medicines to deal with the anxiety, but nothing specifically for borderline anxiety. Is 213 00:17:40.779 --> 00:17:45.529 Trip. Yeah, anxiety apparent. Well, anxiety is like a natural response. 214 00:17:45.009 --> 00:17:48.450 We can get out of control if we're not programmed correctly as babies, 215 00:17:48.769 --> 00:17:52.730 infants, children and such. So I think that's a big reason why so 216 00:17:52.849 --> 00:17:56.809 many people have anxiety these days. It's not it's not that more people have 217 00:17:56.970 --> 00:18:02.119 it. I think well maybe, maybe, generation x, self included, 218 00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:07.400 as raised a bunch of people that are super anxious because of single parent and 219 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.240 the in the house or just stressed out family situations. That will cause an 220 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:15.990 infant to develop anxiety. Anxiety over time can cause you to be depressed. 221 00:18:17.029 --> 00:18:22.789 Anxiety and depression now look like I can't form relationships. I can't form relationships. 222 00:18:22.829 --> 00:18:29.460 Then turns into the symptoms that look like bipolar disorder. It gets I 223 00:18:29.579 --> 00:18:33.460 hesitate to talk too deeply about this because I'm not like a medical professional, 224 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:37.180 not a scientist. I do lots of research, so I try not to 225 00:18:37.299 --> 00:18:41.930 like spread a bunch of bullshit, but I I just wish people would stay 226 00:18:41.970 --> 00:18:48.049 openminded about their diagnosis so that they might realize it's something else, like when 227 00:18:48.049 --> 00:18:52.369 I'd like. Now I Take Med's like there's an adult version of riddling, 228 00:18:52.890 --> 00:18:57.240 and that Shit works pretty well. I'm not depressed right now and I feel 229 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.359 like I'm on track. I'm not sure if it's cause or effect. Like 230 00:19:00.480 --> 00:19:03.720 I said, when I feel like I'm living on purpose and I'm aligned with 231 00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:08.440 my social circles and things like that, I'm less depressed. But is it 232 00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:15.950 the CONCERTA that I take now that has allowed me to sort out my thoughts 233 00:19:15.990 --> 00:19:22.670 better? Because it was add all along? That eliminates my anxiety and the 234 00:19:22.750 --> 00:19:26.099 symptoms that look like borderline or bipolar. So the whole thing is really a 235 00:19:26.180 --> 00:19:30.299 mystery. I'm not like down on myself about it and I think it's smart 236 00:19:30.740 --> 00:19:33.500 to change as you get new information, you know, to go with the 237 00:19:33.579 --> 00:19:37.380 flow. Yeah, you got to qualify the information. It's not like, 238 00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:45.690 I don't know, Hokey like which Dr kind of fixes for things or without 239 00:19:45.730 --> 00:19:51.609 diminishing religion, like prayer, will not solve these issues either, especially because 240 00:19:51.609 --> 00:19:55.759 a lot of times they came from the parents themselves, which is something that's 241 00:19:55.759 --> 00:20:00.119 hard for people to admit, both as a as a child. It's hard 242 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:03.799 to, quote unquote, blame your parent when I don't think it's once you 243 00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:06.519 understand the whole, like the big picture of all of this, there is 244 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:10.109 no blame. It just your parents were fucked up because their parents were fucked 245 00:20:10.109 --> 00:20:12.390 up and their parents were funing because their parents were fucked up. And we 246 00:20:12.549 --> 00:20:17.750 just come from a long line of a fuckery right, because our parents lived 247 00:20:17.829 --> 00:20:22.940 through literally world wars and they struggled through depressions, like grandparents struggle through depressions, 248 00:20:22.980 --> 00:20:26.779 and then there was war and then, if you're born in the summer 249 00:20:26.819 --> 00:20:32.700 of love or during the Vietnam era, there's that stress and society and then, 250 00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:34.730 when you're old enough to have kids. Now it's the you know, 251 00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:40.569 s or s or early thousand or whatever, whatever is happening in society right 252 00:20:40.650 --> 00:20:44.569 it there is going to affect the way you raise your kids. And now 253 00:20:44.650 --> 00:20:48.769 all of a sudden, either because we just have the Internet and more people 254 00:20:48.769 --> 00:20:53.279 are aware, aware of things like that and able to freely speak about them. 255 00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.440 So I can't tell if there's more anxiety or we just see more of 256 00:20:57.519 --> 00:21:02.920 it, but it's all. It all goes back to our environment we were 257 00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:04.710 raised in. Yeah, I don't know what to do about that. I 258 00:21:04.789 --> 00:21:08.549 can't go back and right history. Right, you can like have so instead 259 00:21:08.589 --> 00:21:11.950 of blame me, and I think it's just important to learn. HMM, 260 00:21:12.150 --> 00:21:15.190 except the new things we find. Do you have any traits? Have you 261 00:21:15.269 --> 00:21:22.900 ever considered something other than borderline or bipolar for your condition, in this case, 262 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:27.339 like add or Adhd? Have you ever thought that you might have had 263 00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:34.809 that? I never did. My husband has adhd and his symptoms look completely 264 00:21:34.849 --> 00:21:40.930 different from mine. Really it's an and I never really considered the fact that 265 00:21:40.970 --> 00:21:47.799 I might have Adhd, although it kind of makes sense the way you use 266 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:55.119 your parking about. Yeah, it is interesting. I've in the like anything 267 00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:57.799 else, once you start studying one topic, everything kind of starts to align 268 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:00.950 with that topic. I just saw a story last night. The said kids 269 00:22:02.029 --> 00:22:06.269 that of the youngest in class tend to have a higher instance of Adhd and 270 00:22:06.309 --> 00:22:10.869 depression. Well, when I was in first grade aid, I went home 271 00:22:11.230 --> 00:22:15.309 at Christmas break and when I came back they made me a second greater. 272 00:22:15.589 --> 00:22:18.660 So I went from being a quote unquote normal kid to living out the rest 273 00:22:18.660 --> 00:22:23.220 of my life as the youngest kid in class. Yeah, I didn't think 274 00:22:23.220 --> 00:22:26.859 much about it then. Is the youngest in class year you were. Yeah, 275 00:22:29.259 --> 00:22:33.609 that's that's fastinted. Of course there kindergarten earlier than everybody else, but 276 00:22:34.569 --> 00:22:37.650 so, yeah, it all. It's like. That's why it's so important 277 00:22:37.650 --> 00:22:41.490 to figure out, like let's get the labels right. Let's figure out what 278 00:22:41.609 --> 00:22:45.319 we're doing to kids when they're infants. I mean even the the court of 279 00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:51.079 zone levels of a mother while she's pregnant affects the development of her child's brain 280 00:22:51.160 --> 00:22:56.319 in the womb right. So the kid could pop out with anxiety, not 281 00:22:56.680 --> 00:23:00.630 not depression. There's no like basis for depression yet, but definitely a fight 282 00:23:00.670 --> 00:23:03.309 or flight response when you're baby and that's you looking for your parents eyes, 283 00:23:03.470 --> 00:23:07.509 you know, and you darting all around the room looking for acceptance and all 284 00:23:07.549 --> 00:23:11.630 that stuff. That's kind of the similar, similar things to the way I 285 00:23:11.829 --> 00:23:15.140 felt. And then I realized that, wait a second, I think I 286 00:23:15.259 --> 00:23:18.420 was diagnosed as that as a younger child. I just completely put it out 287 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:23.259 of my mind. Never even thought about it. Really, it's totally weird, 288 00:23:23.299 --> 00:23:29.450 right. And then when I get in my twenties I get diagnosis bipolar, 289 00:23:30.170 --> 00:23:33.289 like what? In hindsight, I'm like, why did I accept that 290 00:23:33.569 --> 00:23:37.690 diagnosis? Why didn't I just remember that I had been diagnosed Adihd as a 291 00:23:37.730 --> 00:23:41.960 child, but I was just never treated for it because my parent didn't want 292 00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:45.759 to acknowledge they're part of all of that. Yeah, I don't know if 293 00:23:45.799 --> 00:23:51.640 they didn't want to acknowledge their part of it or if they were narcissistic and 294 00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:56.430 didn't want to accept that they had a impaired child. Right, they didn't 295 00:23:56.430 --> 00:24:02.150 want to accept responsibility for anything that might have caused that or something like that. 296 00:24:02.630 --> 00:24:06.750 Yeah, I can understand how. Yeah, I can understand how a 297 00:24:06.869 --> 00:24:11.940 parent might fight that diagnosis. Yeah, especially if they're not evolved in the 298 00:24:11.980 --> 00:24:15.180 way that like, for example, you and I are, because we're in 299 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:18.059 the mental health scene, let's call it. So, if you know, 300 00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:22.539 to have kids, I would even raise my own kids differently than I did. 301 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:25.849 I thought I did a pretty good job raising my kids and they turned 302 00:24:25.930 --> 00:24:30.809 out fine. But did they? Are they going to develop anxiety and depression 303 00:24:30.849 --> 00:24:33.009 because I raised them in a high stress environment, because I was strung out 304 00:24:33.130 --> 00:24:38.920 on stress and just were? It's hard to yeah, but again, because 305 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:42.720 now I know what I know, I'm not looking at my mom and my 306 00:24:42.759 --> 00:24:47.440 dad. Didn't blame me them because I know exactly who raised my mom and 307 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:51.000 my dad. My grandparents were alive when I was younger and I got to 308 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:55.349 see who raise them. So in many ways I think, well, even 309 00:24:55.390 --> 00:25:00.190 though you, mom and Dad, don't accept your conditions, I will accept 310 00:25:00.230 --> 00:25:04.109 your conditions because I'm more aware. I've studied a lot more about mental health 311 00:25:04.150 --> 00:25:08.339 and I kind of accept them as they are. It's difficult sometimes because sometimes 312 00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:12.859 they they pretend that they're fine or they pretend that because I study mental health, 313 00:25:12.859 --> 00:25:18.460 that I must be the crazy one. I don't know. But again 314 00:25:18.579 --> 00:25:21.380 back to the blame and the fault thing. I just don't think there's room 315 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:26.769 for it in in a healthy recovery but facts or facts and we are programmed 316 00:25:26.809 --> 00:25:33.569 at at infancy to be the way we are and whatever chemical set we have 317 00:25:33.690 --> 00:25:37.119 in our brain at the time, it's going to process it that way. 318 00:25:37.720 --> 00:25:41.680 Is it really fascinating bit in this book that talks about the Guy who wrote 319 00:25:41.720 --> 00:25:45.000 this book I'm reading. It's called scattered. It's good or mate, who 320 00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:51.789 also wrote the addiction book about Hungry Ghosts. Ever heard that? HMM. 321 00:25:52.190 --> 00:25:56.430 The guy's a great author. He works with homeless people up in Canada on 322 00:25:56.509 --> 00:26:02.150 the West Coast, and all of his books are both medical and speak from 323 00:26:02.150 --> 00:26:07.180 experience. Because Dr Matte has add himself. He brought up a great point 324 00:26:07.940 --> 00:26:12.099 that all of his kids, despite having the same parents, were raised by 325 00:26:12.180 --> 00:26:18.970 different parents. Follow yeah, in other words, like when the first kid 326 00:26:18.130 --> 00:26:22.250 was born, and this would be the same for me or anybody that has 327 00:26:22.289 --> 00:26:26.490 kids. When you first kids born, they're born into a situation with parents 328 00:26:26.569 --> 00:26:30.089 that don't know shit about parenting. They're just making it all up, and 329 00:26:32.170 --> 00:26:34.480 there's the stress of having a first kid. You go from zero kids to 330 00:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.599 one kid. That's a big jump and so you're in a stressful environment. 331 00:26:38.759 --> 00:26:41.119 Can we make it? Do we save enough money to raise this kid? 332 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:45.839 Blah, Blah Blah. Now by the time the next kid comes along you've 333 00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:48.549 got practice parents. Don't worry about it, no worries, I could change 334 00:26:48.549 --> 00:26:52.829 a diaper with one hand, the whole thing right. There's no apprehension or 335 00:26:52.950 --> 00:26:56.349 panic, nothing like that. With the second kid, if you have a 336 00:26:56.430 --> 00:27:00.430 third or fourth or continue on with more kids, you're going to be a 337 00:27:00.549 --> 00:27:04.819 different set of parents each time. So I found even those subtle differences really 338 00:27:04.900 --> 00:27:11.740 important to where you are developed in the in the whole process of your family. 339 00:27:11.819 --> 00:27:14.019 So if you were the firstborn, a second or a thirdborn, there's 340 00:27:14.059 --> 00:27:17.130 lots of studies. I think of Freud and Adler and a couple of others. 341 00:27:17.170 --> 00:27:23.690 Even young did studies on birth order and what it means, and a 342 00:27:23.769 --> 00:27:26.930 lot of it just kind of points to what Dr Mate says, that you 343 00:27:27.009 --> 00:27:30.519 know you can do despite having the same parents. Each kid is raised by 344 00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:36.039 a different parent because of the timeline, because the adults evolved even, of 345 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.160 course, of a day or a week, of course over nine months or 346 00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:41.559 a couple of years. Those are going to be different parents, different financial 347 00:27:41.599 --> 00:27:48.349 situation, different living situations. Born into a family of three instead of a 348 00:27:48.430 --> 00:27:52.710 family of two parents. So there's so much involved with their programming that we 349 00:27:53.029 --> 00:27:56.390 just we don't ignore, but we just it's not something that's top of mind 350 00:27:56.470 --> 00:28:02.299 for most people. So a lot of this comes into place of the anxiety 351 00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:06.660 is the depressions we have, the emotional states, the mood swings, the 352 00:28:06.819 --> 00:28:11.259 things that lead to the symptoms that we show could come from any direction. 353 00:28:11.500 --> 00:28:17.809 So the fact that I think it's a spectrum now, not medically proven or 354 00:28:17.809 --> 00:28:22.490 anything, but just seeing that all these quote unquote disorders are collections of symptoms 355 00:28:22.569 --> 00:28:30.480 that that overlap like then diagram. One of the interesting things I've found out 356 00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:36.839 about adhd that really set with me was the idea of something called counter will, 357 00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.789 psychological term. Kids develop it when we feel we're being coerced, and 358 00:28:41.990 --> 00:28:47.630 the interesting thing about counter will in a child is that kids know if they're 359 00:28:47.630 --> 00:28:52.869 being coerced, whether it's with a spanking or with candy. The idea that 360 00:28:52.990 --> 00:29:00.140 we're being coerced alone will affect us a child with Adhd, because we will 361 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:07.819 push against that and sometimes the idea that we're distracted or can't finish anything is 362 00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:11.450 directly related to counter will. It's not that we can't, is we refuse, 363 00:29:12.089 --> 00:29:15.490 like we not in control of refusing, but our brain is saying, 364 00:29:15.609 --> 00:29:19.289 wait a second, I'm being coerced here. Someone's trying to get me to 365 00:29:19.329 --> 00:29:23.440 do something that I didn't think of myself and voluntarily. You know, accept 366 00:29:25.079 --> 00:29:27.599 this is coercion and I'm not having it. Of We don't. Yeah, 367 00:29:27.680 --> 00:29:30.880 we don't speak that through. We don't like carry the thought out into the 368 00:29:30.960 --> 00:29:36.400 public like but I found the whole idea of counter will to be really interesting, 369 00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:41.309 especially with like I'm an anarchist. I just refuse authority. While I'm 370 00:29:41.349 --> 00:29:44.789 like, well, maybe that's routed directly to the counter will. Maybe anytime 371 00:29:44.910 --> 00:29:48.430 someone tells me I'm supposed to do something or live a certain way, my 372 00:29:48.789 --> 00:29:53.539 inherent reaction is to counter it, is to be against that. Yeah, 373 00:29:55.220 --> 00:29:57.819 I kind of do rest that. That's resonate with me a little B bit 374 00:29:57.859 --> 00:30:02.980 as far as I wasn't as a kid anyway. Yeah, yeah, and 375 00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:07.730 and I do. It was funny because I found my parents moved recently and 376 00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:15.450 when they are moving, I found a bunch of paperwork that had some of 377 00:30:15.569 --> 00:30:18.809 my documents from when they had taken me to see a psychologist as as a 378 00:30:18.849 --> 00:30:26.000 child and evidently one of the psychologists diagnosed me with Adhd and one said I 379 00:30:26.039 --> 00:30:29.880 did not have a dhd but that I was just a mini Beatle, that 380 00:30:30.039 --> 00:30:36.549 manipulative child. Wow, that yeah, the doctor talks about that in this 381 00:30:36.670 --> 00:30:41.789 book to how we're when I say we, it could be applied to borderline 382 00:30:41.789 --> 00:30:45.069 kids, to adhd kids or whatnot. But yeah, the word manipulative comes 383 00:30:45.109 --> 00:30:48.670 up a lot. They think we're trying to manipulate the situation. And what's 384 00:30:48.710 --> 00:30:55.539 really interesting was attention deficit disorder. He brought it up like a bank account, 385 00:30:56.019 --> 00:31:00.779 like our ore. We are out of attention. Nobody gave us the 386 00:31:00.859 --> 00:31:04.849 proper attention as child's, as children, I mean when we were forming, 387 00:31:06.410 --> 00:31:08.650 when we were adolescence, you know, two years old, six years older, 388 00:31:08.690 --> 00:31:12.809 wherever. We didn't get the proper kind of attention. That's what we're 389 00:31:12.890 --> 00:31:17.289 at a deficit of. It's not that we cannot pay attention. That's what 390 00:31:17.569 --> 00:31:18.799 was the block with me. I'm like, well, I can pay attention, 391 00:31:18.839 --> 00:31:22.400 I'm hiper focused, I can I can do all these things, but 392 00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:27.279 even that hyper focus is a is a tool for distracting yourself. You're distracting 393 00:31:27.359 --> 00:31:32.359 yourself from the pressure, in the anxiety of life by hiper focusing on a 394 00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:37.069 thing that you're really interested in. So it just comes to this big kind 395 00:31:37.069 --> 00:31:41.150 of cluster fucking my mind and I'm like, well, is it counter will? 396 00:31:41.430 --> 00:31:47.380 Am I pushing against what's really going on here? HMM. It's fascinating. 397 00:31:47.460 --> 00:31:51.740 And what's really interesting, especially like in in Louisiana, for example, 398 00:31:52.740 --> 00:31:56.220 I have no problem telling people like my when I go to a doctor appointment 399 00:31:56.259 --> 00:31:59.420 or a therapy appointment or somebody else got like the Pharmacy, oh I'm just 400 00:31:59.500 --> 00:32:02.690 picking up my add meds. No one bats an eye. No one, 401 00:32:02.809 --> 00:32:06.809 yea, it's an eye. If I said I was picking up my bipolar 402 00:32:06.890 --> 00:32:09.930 meds, they've do you know, back up step. It's all of a 403 00:32:09.930 --> 00:32:17.640 sudden become quiet of so many, so many differences between the stigmas involved in 404 00:32:17.680 --> 00:32:22.480 each particular disorder. And like the doctor was the surgeon that the ear was 405 00:32:22.559 --> 00:32:27.079 talking about, rolling his eyes about borderline people. No, you don't want 406 00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:29.880 that, like well, I don't think people who have that attitual voice. 407 00:32:30.230 --> 00:32:32.589 You know what I mean? That was that's the programming we got. So 408 00:32:32.750 --> 00:32:37.269 how do we with people talk about spreading awareness in the mental health community? 409 00:32:37.509 --> 00:32:40.589 I'm like, it drives me crazy because, yes, we know, we're 410 00:32:40.630 --> 00:32:45.779 aware. It exists, but let's be more aware of of other things, 411 00:32:45.460 --> 00:32:51.299 like the causes. And is there a blame? Oh, it's not a 412 00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:54.500 blame, it's the programming we received as kid. So I wish, I 413 00:32:54.579 --> 00:33:00.289 wish when we spread awareness we were more specific about what to be aware of, 414 00:33:00.730 --> 00:33:04.289 because just being aware that people are anxious and depressed, that's kind of 415 00:33:04.329 --> 00:33:07.690 falls on deaf ears. Everyone, I think, inherently knows that people get 416 00:33:07.769 --> 00:33:12.650 anxious and depressed and to stifle that is one thing. That's an argument. 417 00:33:12.769 --> 00:33:15.039 You know, based on your family upbringing, whether you stifle your feelings and 418 00:33:15.200 --> 00:33:17.960 don't make a scene or or if you just let it out and cry like 419 00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:23.039 a baby, or however you want to frame it. But the idea that 420 00:33:24.319 --> 00:33:29.990 we're just running around accepting labels and then trying to fit our personality to the 421 00:33:30.029 --> 00:33:32.509 label. Like, for example, if someone said you had bipolar disorder, 422 00:33:34.109 --> 00:33:37.829 when to go read on wikipedia and the Mayo Clinic and all those websites about 423 00:33:37.349 --> 00:33:42.299 bipolar disorder. And now every every time I'm starting to feel a certain way, 424 00:33:42.299 --> 00:33:45.460 I'm like, Oh, yeah, that's bipolar disorder and that's okay because 425 00:33:45.460 --> 00:33:47.220 that's what I have. But in my mind now I'm like it's not. 426 00:33:47.339 --> 00:33:50.819 Okay, it might not be what you have. Just just be you, 427 00:33:51.019 --> 00:33:55.490 like try to be the best you you can be, without living like, 428 00:33:55.730 --> 00:33:59.289 like say, living down to the label. I would say, living up 429 00:33:59.289 --> 00:34:01.809 to the label of someone says, yes, you're a rich prince of Malaysia, 430 00:34:02.329 --> 00:34:05.450 like well, okay, I'm going to live up to that. Well, 431 00:34:05.450 --> 00:34:09.480 if they say you your bipolar, borderline Adhd, I think it's important 432 00:34:09.480 --> 00:34:13.679 also not to live down to that label, like try to rise above it 433 00:34:14.400 --> 00:34:17.039 and, yeah, and show people that hey, normal people, like we 434 00:34:17.199 --> 00:34:21.880 talked about, what you focus on kind of growing. There's people with other 435 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:24.230 kind of ailments that that's not the only thing they talk about. In fact, 436 00:34:24.550 --> 00:34:30.949 in like physical ailments, it's often the opposite. For example, if 437 00:34:30.949 --> 00:34:35.309 you have if you're missing a leg, you don't post all the time on 438 00:34:35.389 --> 00:34:39.380 the Internet like Whoa whoe was me in my vacant space where my leg was 439 00:34:39.860 --> 00:34:46.260 no, they're posting pictures of them with the prosthetic leg overcoming their impairment and 440 00:34:46.579 --> 00:34:51.619 running a race. I don't see that as much in the mental health world. 441 00:34:51.619 --> 00:34:52.449 A lot of times, if you say, Hey, look, I've 442 00:34:52.449 --> 00:34:57.769 figured out a way to feel better and to succeed in life. Others will 443 00:34:57.849 --> 00:35:00.849 say, well, don't rub it in our faces. That kind of thing, 444 00:35:00.409 --> 00:35:05.329 Mike. Why can't we support people's success is in the mental health field 445 00:35:05.809 --> 00:35:07.840 without knocking them down or not trying to make it a contest like, well, 446 00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:10.880 you must not have it as bad as I have it. Then you 447 00:35:12.000 --> 00:35:15.679 know who knows, who knows who has it worse. It doesn't even matter. 448 00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.400 I think it's important that we focus on what. Yeah, what we 449 00:35:19.480 --> 00:35:23.389 can do. Yeah, make it, make it more like the Special Olympics 450 00:35:23.429 --> 00:35:30.829 or the pair Olympics or any Olympics where people are overcoming their shortcomings. Like 451 00:35:30.030 --> 00:35:34.309 I was thought would be cool to have like a mental health Olympics or mental 452 00:35:34.349 --> 00:35:38.420 illness Olympics, or however you want to call it, where people with schizophrenia 453 00:35:38.420 --> 00:35:45.500 and bipolar disorder and hardcore depression and all those things come together in an auditorium 454 00:35:45.980 --> 00:35:52.929 and perform feats of greatness, whether it's painting or creating music or making podcast 455 00:35:52.010 --> 00:35:57.530 or writing books or whatever people can do to prove that their illness is not 456 00:35:57.690 --> 00:36:01.289 their entire being. That would be fun. So if anybody out there is 457 00:36:01.289 --> 00:36:07.440 a organizer and has lots of energy, maybe organize a mental illness Olympics instead 458 00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:12.519 of a contest as to who can get the most votes or the most traffic 459 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:15.800 to the contest website. I've seen that with both the mental health field and 460 00:36:16.079 --> 00:36:21.349 with the PODCAST field, and I'm like, well, there's a podcast award 461 00:36:21.389 --> 00:36:24.989 show. What's The podcast award show about? And I looked at the criteria. 462 00:36:25.150 --> 00:36:28.710 It's like yeah, whoever gets the most votes. I'm I quitting the 463 00:36:28.789 --> 00:36:30.829 most votes for what? What's the criteria? Oh, the most votes to 464 00:36:31.110 --> 00:36:35.139 our website, I might go. So, basically, whoever generates the most 465 00:36:35.179 --> 00:36:38.179 traffic wins that. How's that? A podcast will what's the celebration of a 466 00:36:38.260 --> 00:36:45.260 podcast? I feel similarly about there's a mental health contest. Thing goes out 467 00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:49.570 like best advocate or or most this or most that, and then when I 468 00:36:49.610 --> 00:36:52.889 look into the criteria and like there is no criteria. It's a it's a 469 00:36:52.969 --> 00:37:00.289 traffic contest. So I wish that we focused on important things like overcoming and 470 00:37:00.570 --> 00:37:04.840 focusing on the on the good that we do inherently as individuals, not that 471 00:37:04.960 --> 00:37:09.840 the good we bring to a website. HMM, yeah, that's definitely true, 472 00:37:09.920 --> 00:37:20.670 but it's isn't it true also that you have to in order for for 473 00:37:20.989 --> 00:37:28.590 the stigma to be lessened because you're doing, you know, things other than, 474 00:37:29.750 --> 00:37:35.260 you know, bemoaning your illness and you're doing things like creating music or 475 00:37:35.980 --> 00:37:45.210 whatever you have going on. Isn't it true that you have to first have 476 00:37:46.889 --> 00:37:53.570 gone through and accepted your illness and made it public in a way for that 477 00:37:54.289 --> 00:37:59.400 stigma to be lessened? Yeah, I think so, kind of like in 478 00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.760 the way like like pick somebody that's a big start. The only the two 479 00:38:01.840 --> 00:38:07.320 that come to mine would be somebody like Maria Bamford or Russell brand, where 480 00:38:07.760 --> 00:38:13.510 they have succeeded after they've, quote unquote, come out as a mental health 481 00:38:13.630 --> 00:38:17.030 patient. Is that? Is that kind of which talking about, like like 482 00:38:17.309 --> 00:38:22.710 you have to acknowledge it first in order to be an advocate or a champion 483 00:38:22.750 --> 00:38:24.710 of the of the cause. In other words, if you just go and 484 00:38:24.829 --> 00:38:30.619 succeed, well then there's no point in it. Announcing it. There's like 485 00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:35.980 people say that staying or Elon Musk have bipolar but not they have never, 486 00:38:36.139 --> 00:38:38.699 liked come out specifically and said they've alluded to it, but they've alluded to 487 00:38:38.739 --> 00:38:42.530 it in ways that were so casual you can't really tell if they were just 488 00:38:42.690 --> 00:38:46.570 using the word wrong or yeah, what right? And we don't know them 489 00:38:46.650 --> 00:38:51.329 personally, so we can't tell it that guy just stays up too many hours 490 00:38:51.409 --> 00:38:54.800 or that guy's are creating genius regardless. But you're right. So that makes 491 00:38:54.840 --> 00:38:59.840 sense. I mean you have to kind of like you can't be can't go 492 00:39:00.039 --> 00:39:04.280 to the is there a Gay Olympics? You couldn't go to the town. 493 00:39:04.760 --> 00:39:06.960 Well, if there was, you mean you wouldn't. You couldn't go to 494 00:39:07.039 --> 00:39:09.190 the Gay Olympics unless you actually came out first as being gay. Like you 495 00:39:09.309 --> 00:39:15.630 have to acknowledge the stigma, I guess, is what you're really doing before 496 00:39:15.789 --> 00:39:17.869 you can go and overcome it. But what I see is a lot of 497 00:39:17.909 --> 00:39:22.429 people acknowledging the stigma, but then they don't do anything to overcome it. 498 00:39:22.550 --> 00:39:25.219 They kind of wallow in the mire and like, okay, I acknowledge my 499 00:39:25.300 --> 00:39:29.619 stigma and now I'm just going to sit here and wine about it year after 500 00:39:29.659 --> 00:39:32.059 year on twitter. I'm like, don't do that. Show us what you 501 00:39:32.139 --> 00:39:37.619 can do next, like show us that you are a capable advocate and leader 502 00:39:37.219 --> 00:39:40.690 by becoming better. You know what I mean. So I think if we 503 00:39:40.769 --> 00:39:45.409 don't become better, we're horrible advocates. If we just keep repeating the same 504 00:39:45.449 --> 00:39:50.329 thing just for clicks and likes. Then that is the contest, the Click 505 00:39:50.369 --> 00:39:53.119 and light contest. But who does that serve? I think to a point 506 00:39:53.159 --> 00:39:58.639 it only serves the people getting the clicks and the likes. It might help 507 00:39:58.639 --> 00:40:01.360 people at first to hear about others, but it's not going to help them 508 00:40:01.400 --> 00:40:07.869 anymore if those people that they're listening to and following are not progressing in their 509 00:40:07.909 --> 00:40:15.429 recovery. Yeah, it sound Jadd to a sound cynical um a little bit. 510 00:40:16.630 --> 00:40:20.510 I kind of am. I'm wondering if it's just with age or my 511 00:40:20.630 --> 00:40:24.500 personality in general, but sometimes I just give just fed up of like everything's 512 00:40:24.539 --> 00:40:28.460 got to be a contest or like in capitalism, like well, how much 513 00:40:28.460 --> 00:40:30.340 money does it make? So to imply that we're supposed to be in a 514 00:40:30.460 --> 00:40:36.969 some kind of a contest to generate traffic or generate money, I think defeats 515 00:40:37.010 --> 00:40:42.570 the purpose. But that's why I like your podcast, for example, and 516 00:40:42.889 --> 00:40:45.409 a handful of others, but there aren't many because most of them, when 517 00:40:45.409 --> 00:40:49.769 it gets down to it, they're they're playing that old dopamine game for clicks 518 00:40:49.809 --> 00:40:52.840 and money anyway. So how is your podcast doing? By the way, 519 00:40:54.719 --> 00:40:59.800 it's doing pretty well. I got I took a pretty extended hiatus there for 520 00:40:59.840 --> 00:41:05.789 a while, but I'm back doing doing them weekly. So Nice, pretty 521 00:41:05.829 --> 00:41:08.989 good. have any guests you want to talk about? Any guests you have 522 00:41:09.150 --> 00:41:13.710 recently you want to mention? Because this is not a commercial venture, we 523 00:41:13.789 --> 00:41:16.309 could talk about all of the great things and promote the best of the best. 524 00:41:20.860 --> 00:41:23.820 Who did I have on recently? Let's see. Well, coming up 525 00:41:23.940 --> 00:41:35.650 I'm going to have cathy from discussing dissociation back on and I really enjoyed our 526 00:41:35.929 --> 00:41:43.929 first conversation because I learned a lot about dissociative identity disorder from her and some 527 00:41:43.929 --> 00:41:47.559 I'm looking forward to that and hopefully I can learn them even more from her 528 00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:51.800 next time. Yeah, that sounds neat. What is yeah, for people 529 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:55.760 who don't know what disassociative identity disorder is, can you like summarize it in 530 00:41:55.840 --> 00:42:02.150 a nutshell? It well, it's what used to be called multiple personality disorder, 531 00:42:04.670 --> 00:42:12.429 but that's kind of a misnomer. But it's when it's a response to 532 00:42:12.469 --> 00:42:21.300 trauma that occurs generally as a child, where you create altars to enjoy the 533 00:42:21.380 --> 00:42:25.059 trauma so you don't have to do it deal with it in your daty day 534 00:42:25.179 --> 00:42:31.289 life. Does that make sense totally? It's that that's actually quite amazing really, 535 00:42:31.570 --> 00:42:34.889 the power of the brain to be able to do that. I mean 536 00:42:34.929 --> 00:42:37.769 we all do it in a sense, like we create our defense mechanisms, 537 00:42:37.849 --> 00:42:43.050 whether it's hyper focus or, like we were talking about earlier, lethargy, 538 00:42:43.210 --> 00:42:45.880 where you just or counter will, where like Nope, not doing that. 539 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:49.960 But the idea that you would come up with a new altar, is to 540 00:42:50.039 --> 00:42:53.000 call it like an alter ego or secondary character in your mind, and to 541 00:42:53.079 --> 00:43:00.070 be able to refer to that character consistently and accurately each time is amazing to 542 00:43:00.110 --> 00:43:02.190 me. I'm not saying that, hey, like that's a great skill actors 543 00:43:02.269 --> 00:43:07.429 could have, because it sounds miserable honestly, because I'm sure to have little 544 00:43:07.429 --> 00:43:10.550 control over when the characters pop up. So that is is that similar to 545 00:43:10.789 --> 00:43:15.900 like Sybil, back that the classic book from the Early Days of s I 546 00:43:15.940 --> 00:43:21.420 think there's a book called Sybil which was about multiple personalities? Yeah, but 547 00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:23.739 I think Sybil was a criminal or I think there's crime involved, and I 548 00:43:23.780 --> 00:43:29.289 don't want to imply that people with the ID or criminals at all, of 549 00:43:29.449 --> 00:43:35.570 course. Yeah, well, I think that it's the same kind of concept, 550 00:43:35.730 --> 00:43:45.119 that that you can create different personalities for yourself. Yeah, and they 551 00:43:45.159 --> 00:43:49.960 can pop up, you know, in response to stress, their trauma or, 552 00:43:50.440 --> 00:43:52.639 you know, for no reason at all. That sounds neat, is 553 00:43:53.039 --> 00:43:57.510 I mean it sounds neat as a topic of discussion and discovery. Yeah, 554 00:43:57.550 --> 00:44:01.909 for sure. It's definitely interesting when you talk to like, do you know 555 00:44:02.110 --> 00:44:07.110 what the recovery process is like? Do you try to merge all of them 556 00:44:07.150 --> 00:44:09.099 or do you try to sew them all together to understand that it's all you? 557 00:44:09.139 --> 00:44:15.099 Or I'm curious about that. I think that's what we're going to be 558 00:44:15.219 --> 00:44:19.780 talking about next time. Wow. So, if you listening to us now, 559 00:44:20.699 --> 00:44:25.250 the best way, the fastest way I would find becky show is that 560 00:44:25.530 --> 00:44:30.849 be wordcom that be weirdcom Yep, or just look for that be word on 561 00:44:30.889 --> 00:44:35.730 itunes. Yeah, for sure. And if you're well into like twitter, 562 00:44:35.969 --> 00:44:39.119 it's at that B word one, the number one MMM. Yeah, and 563 00:44:39.280 --> 00:44:44.039 Beckie's really responsive. So if, yeah, especially if you're going to go, 564 00:44:45.639 --> 00:44:50.199 if you're into something like disassociative identity disorder, which is a law. 565 00:44:50.239 --> 00:44:53.630 That's a mouthful right there. Yeah, but it makes sense and it's a 566 00:44:53.630 --> 00:45:00.590 lot more fair than saying split personality. Right. That's sometimes we oversimplify the 567 00:45:00.710 --> 00:45:06.389 labels and then they get exactly like just bipolars. The same way people assume 568 00:45:06.469 --> 00:45:08.579 that, oh, you're either you're either fucked up, sad and depressed in 569 00:45:08.659 --> 00:45:14.219 bed and useless, or you're super hyper and manic and useless. You know 570 00:45:14.260 --> 00:45:15.619 what I mean? Like, wait, no, we live in the whole 571 00:45:15.699 --> 00:45:21.929 range. That's just the extremes. You're right, and same way. And 572 00:45:22.090 --> 00:45:27.809 I've been stifling the attention deficit disorder thing too, because, like, wait, 573 00:45:27.849 --> 00:45:31.449 I can pay attention. I must not have that. I'm fast, 574 00:45:31.769 --> 00:45:37.280 a bit hyper, Michael, that that's just hypo manic. I'm Hypo Mania. 575 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:39.559 Might not be either. It could be both. I don't know. 576 00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:43.960 I feel fine today. Yeah, that yeah, well, knock on, 577 00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:47.559 yeah, yeah, well, it's great to have you. I'm sorry over 578 00:45:47.679 --> 00:45:52.510 talk, but sometimes I need like somebody who understands in and knows what I'm 579 00:45:52.550 --> 00:45:57.829 talking about to bounce ideas off of. And I appreciate your time so that 580 00:45:58.989 --> 00:46:00.110 I think this will turn out good, to think people like to hear what 581 00:46:00.190 --> 00:46:06.659 we're talking about and appreciate your show. I think you can have probably doing 582 00:46:06.820 --> 00:46:09.860 more shows more frequently than this show. So if you listen to bipolar style 583 00:46:10.380 --> 00:46:15.579 and you like it, you will love that be word. So Click Pause, 584 00:46:15.900 --> 00:46:19.570 fast forward to the end of this or whatever, but once you're done, 585 00:46:19.570 --> 00:46:23.050 immediately go out and search for that B word and give it a listen. 586 00:46:23.250 --> 00:46:29.130 Becky is a fantastic interviewer. She listens more than she talks, which 587 00:46:29.210 --> 00:46:34.199 is great, and just kind of yeah, yeah, it's a peaceful experience 588 00:46:34.280 --> 00:46:38.039 to listen to. So I appreciate you've spend some time with me and I 589 00:46:38.159 --> 00:46:44.000 hope to see you soon on the Internet and absolutely, yeah, for sure. 590 00:46:44.400 --> 00:46:47.110 So if you want to follow me, I'm at at bipolar style on 591 00:46:47.230 --> 00:46:54.389 twitter and you can also find the show bipolar stylecom. So I thank you 592 00:46:54.469 --> 00:47:02.699 for your time and we'll see you listeners next time or on the Internet style 593 00:47:04.380 --> 00:47:09.460 on cheese five following joy. Excuse me,