Borrowing anti-stigma tactics from the homosexual community; what works?

WEBVTT 1 00:00:02.600 --> 00:00:15.470 It's only now it's online Bible. This stylecom emotions with Bible style. All 2 00:00:15.470 --> 00:00:21.500 right, so you know I'm based in downtown San Francisco, USA, right, 3 00:00:22.539 --> 00:00:27.339 and you may also know that San Francisco has a long, colorful history 4 00:00:28.059 --> 00:00:37.810 with homosexual community and you know that this show is about oftentimes mental health related 5 00:00:37.850 --> 00:00:45.250 topics. So I'm wondering, especially after the big pride month, like all 6 00:00:45.289 --> 00:00:49.530 of June is pride month and it culminates in huge festival here, like a 7 00:00:49.609 --> 00:00:54.759 million plus people in downtown San Francisco, all kinds of rainbow flags and glitter 8 00:00:54.880 --> 00:00:59.399 and everyone's just being their best gayness right. Everyone brings it, be as 9 00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:04.590 gay as you can be. I'm thinking that's interesting and because not long ago, 10 00:01:04.909 --> 00:01:10.150 when the diagnostic manual from mental disorders came out in one thousand nine hundred 11 00:01:10.189 --> 00:01:15.670 and sixty eight, homosexuality was a mental disorder and not until one thousand nine 12 00:01:15.670 --> 00:01:19.859 hundred and eighty nine did they have it removed out of that book. Until 13 00:01:19.939 --> 00:01:26.260 then it went from a disorder to a disturbance, something they called a mental 14 00:01:26.379 --> 00:01:34.730 disturbance, sexual orientation disturbance. So anyway, my point being is, if 15 00:01:34.170 --> 00:01:42.849 one sidelines community that had been stigmatized and labeled can shake their stigma? Are 16 00:01:42.969 --> 00:01:49.599 there any tools in that community that the mental health community can use to reduce 17 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:56.040 stigma amongst people who suffer from mental disorders? So I found a guy in 18 00:01:56.200 --> 00:02:00.040 my building. He's a really nice guy named mark, who agreed to come 19 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.709 on the podcast and marks really cool in general, but he's also a great 20 00:02:04.790 --> 00:02:12.590 character to talk to these issues because he suffers from severe depression, sometimes he's 21 00:02:12.590 --> 00:02:17.020 clinically depressed, and he's also homosexual. So we have an interesting conversation and 22 00:02:17.060 --> 00:02:22.219 I brought up some of my more ridiculous points to get his thoughts on them 23 00:02:22.819 --> 00:02:27.379 and we kind of we worked out a few things on how the mental health 24 00:02:27.460 --> 00:02:32.689 community can better further their cause and we also found some key stumbling points that 25 00:02:32.810 --> 00:02:38.689 I don't think we will ever be able to mitigate. So listen in as 26 00:02:38.849 --> 00:02:44.919 we walk through the Ruckus of the parade, and I think I got it 27 00:02:45.000 --> 00:02:46.599 tuned out just right. You might hear the Ruckus in the background, but 28 00:02:46.639 --> 00:02:52.360 hopefully you can hear our conversation. So we'll just cut to it. Here 29 00:02:52.599 --> 00:02:58.439 is me talking to mark a about how the mental health community might be able 30 00:02:58.479 --> 00:03:04.830 to use the tools of the homosexual community to reduce stigma. Join the party 31 00:03:05.110 --> 00:03:10.270 at Bipolar Partycom well, Hey, oh, so here's here's why we talked 32 00:03:10.310 --> 00:03:13.620 in the lobby, right. So I asked you to be on the PODCAST. 33 00:03:14.180 --> 00:03:17.379 And and Mark Lives in my building with me and he shares this perspective 34 00:03:17.460 --> 00:03:22.500 on lots of interesting things, so I feel comfortable sharing this idea with him 35 00:03:22.620 --> 00:03:28.729 to get his feedback. Okay, so after the pride weekend it was amazing, 36 00:03:28.810 --> 00:03:34.930 right, just shit ton of people all over town celebrating what used to 37 00:03:35.009 --> 00:03:38.409 be, as recently is one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, a mental 38 00:03:38.530 --> 00:03:42.840 disturbance. Now, hear me out. So in one thousand nine hundred and 39 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:47.360 sixty eight, the diagnostic manual that lists things like bipolar and schizophrenia, Dottada, 40 00:03:47.840 --> 00:03:53.199 also listed homosexuality as a disorder and like. That's fascinating and I don't 41 00:03:53.240 --> 00:03:55.550 know it. I don't think disorder. I don't want to know. I 42 00:03:55.590 --> 00:04:00.030 don't think most people that are around today, or woke or whatever, realize 43 00:04:00.069 --> 00:04:02.389 that as recent is, in one thousand nine hundred and eighty nine, it 44 00:04:02.550 --> 00:04:06.349 was still and it got listed down from a disorder to a disturbance and now 45 00:04:06.389 --> 00:04:11.580 it's been taken out pretty much completely of all the mental health manuals. It's 46 00:04:11.659 --> 00:04:15.860 great. So I guess my point being is, how do we determine what's 47 00:04:16.060 --> 00:04:19.660 behavior oriented, like, say, a bipolar person talking too much or spending 48 00:04:19.699 --> 00:04:24.259 all the money in their bank account or being depressed and staying in bed all 49 00:04:24.290 --> 00:04:28.649 day or whatever? How do we get those people destigmatized to the point where 50 00:04:28.689 --> 00:04:32.810 we could have a big parade full of, you know, mentally ill people? 51 00:04:32.810 --> 00:04:35.529 Well, is that anything? Is that a fair comparison and all, 52 00:04:35.569 --> 00:04:38.490 there's anothers how you do it? Here's the answer to how you do it. 53 00:04:38.529 --> 00:04:41.879 Okay, I don't know whether it's comparison or not. You you have 54 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:46.959 to they have to be able to dress normal, have normal jobs, look 55 00:04:46.040 --> 00:04:51.240 like they're totally represent whatever age group they need to be. They have to 56 00:04:51.399 --> 00:05:02.230 look successful. They have to probably still be white, want wall before anyone 57 00:05:02.269 --> 00:05:06.579 consider they might be neural. But okay, the hard one said. No, 58 00:05:06.699 --> 00:05:10.060 that's I've come across this too, and I think kind of similarly. 59 00:05:10.220 --> 00:05:15.339 So to eliminate stigma you have to be all of the things a quote unquote 60 00:05:15.379 --> 00:05:17.620 normal person is. We used to think that, and then some and then 61 00:05:17.740 --> 00:05:20.100 over. We used to think that. We used to think that we needed 62 00:05:20.180 --> 00:05:24.730 to. We need the appearance of people, you know, the that looks 63 00:05:24.769 --> 00:05:29.370 entirely normal, the lipstick lesbians, the Marlboro Man, that that would be 64 00:05:29.490 --> 00:05:32.689 helpful. But in fact it didn't make any difference. It did make any 65 00:05:32.689 --> 00:05:38.800 difference. Well, because that's what what was being of. The people were 66 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:43.879 sneaking around. ABC News was in our parks photographing men in the parks and, 67 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:48.319 you know, having sex in the bushes, and that's and that was 68 00:05:48.399 --> 00:05:54.829 the image. It just get going around and I think after well, I 69 00:05:54.910 --> 00:05:58.310 think I told you to see other day. It's what change this stigma. 70 00:05:58.589 --> 00:06:03.779 What changed was our value are that we were something that was worth a lot 71 00:06:03.860 --> 00:06:10.779 of money in we had money to spend, we were consumers. Wow, 72 00:06:11.019 --> 00:06:15.459 that's a great point. Okay, so, aside from the things like the 73 00:06:15.540 --> 00:06:19.250 shocking turn of events at Stone Wall that prompted like a national outcry, marches 74 00:06:19.329 --> 00:06:23.930 in Chicago, La San Francisco, okay, that that hasn't really happened in 75 00:06:23.970 --> 00:06:28.009 the mental health field. Mean there's no shocking one instance where everyone says, 76 00:06:28.290 --> 00:06:30.089 oh my gosh, how dare we depressed people that way? And that's not 77 00:06:30.250 --> 00:06:33.120 likely to happen. Yeah, but you brought up a great point in that 78 00:06:33.720 --> 00:06:39.399 historically, in America anyway, all the money comes from the men earning the 79 00:06:39.519 --> 00:06:43.879 income in the homosexual community. In that case, if you consider only the 80 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:49.069 men part, yeah, you've got two men, ostensibly white males, who 81 00:06:49.189 --> 00:06:53.430 are at the highest earning capacity. So you're right. There was a commercial 82 00:06:53.430 --> 00:06:57.430 aspect to being able to remove the stigma and we like Barry Diller, we 83 00:06:57.470 --> 00:07:00.779 had really big people, David Geffen, though. Those were the big people 84 00:07:00.899 --> 00:07:05.660 who were too rich to give a shit and you know about what anybody thought. 85 00:07:06.060 --> 00:07:12.699 But we've never had since we've never had a male movie star of like 86 00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:17.730 a a status of Tom Cruise ever come out and write. Even remember like 87 00:07:17.769 --> 00:07:21.490 rock Hudson did posthumously kind of, and it became a big thing. We 88 00:07:21.649 --> 00:07:26.170 Yeah, we protected rock huts and he would come to the Castro and we 89 00:07:26.209 --> 00:07:29.689 would see him and we did have no getting him. But really was you've 90 00:07:29.730 --> 00:07:31.720 seen. You've seen, I mean you have a storied history mark so you've 91 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:35.560 seen like Rod Hudson in the Castro and Oh yeah, Oh yeah, there 92 00:07:35.639 --> 00:07:41.079 was, like there was lots of those people. We try to be cool 93 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:44.079 about it just because of course you know and of course it was an open 94 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.509 secret. Well then that's the thing too, and a lot of cultures is 95 00:07:46.629 --> 00:07:48.470 how cool can you be about things? Like in Hollywood is like, Oh, 96 00:07:48.470 --> 00:07:51.189 I don't notice any stars in the Castro. It's like, I don't 97 00:07:51.189 --> 00:07:54.990 know any gay people. You know, it's the the contest when you're in 98 00:07:55.110 --> 00:07:57.829 that like, how cool can you be not to notice it? Yeah, 99 00:07:57.829 --> 00:07:59.819 but yeah, it's kind like a New York City when you know, when 100 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:01.379 you see any when you see a celebrity in New York City, you just 101 00:08:01.579 --> 00:08:05.620 you know, you pretend you're not about to pass out. Right, no, 102 00:08:05.779 --> 00:08:09.180 right, and you see Warren Betty with Diane Keaton Walk Past You, 103 00:08:09.259 --> 00:08:13.129 you just you know. I can even tell you that Maria Shriver has fat 104 00:08:13.209 --> 00:08:16.730 ankles. Wow. Why know that? Because I was in Honolulu and her 105 00:08:16.850 --> 00:08:20.449 and they weren't he wasn't the governor. They were young and dating and I 106 00:08:20.649 --> 00:08:22.649 just thought, Oh my God, Poor Maria. They were going on the 107 00:08:22.649 --> 00:08:28.279 right of movies. Almost almost made a body's shaming joke in that like is 108 00:08:28.399 --> 00:08:33.399 that we're all her fat went to the ankles. She's very thin. I 109 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.840 don't mean. This is terrible thing to say and I don't like to just 110 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.320 like noticed by was anything I could notice. It is a fascinating observation for 111 00:08:39.440 --> 00:08:43.549 someone that's so thin to have larger ankles. I guess interesting that. Yeah, 112 00:08:43.590 --> 00:08:46.750 that is a thing to like. Can just just be cool. When 113 00:08:46.750 --> 00:08:50.070 I was in Los Angeles recently for a few years, yea, we see 114 00:08:50.110 --> 00:08:52.669 stars all the time and after a while people say do you see stars and 115 00:08:52.830 --> 00:08:56.460 like yeah, yeah, I actually do, but I forgot which ones. 116 00:08:56.500 --> 00:09:00.299 Do you want me to tell you about? Have you seen this person? 117 00:09:00.460 --> 00:09:03.419 Like actually, yeah, I did see you, just after a while it's 118 00:09:03.419 --> 00:09:07.580 like, hm, not a thing going somewhere. I was snoopy. I 119 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:09.730 should talk about this. I remember being on an airplane coming back from London 120 00:09:09.769 --> 00:09:16.370 and grant tinker was sitting next to me. I'd use my finger flower miles 121 00:09:16.409 --> 00:09:20.610 and I wait. Grant Tinker was like head of something at any Mbia and 122 00:09:20.649 --> 00:09:22.490 marry tyner Mars husband. You know that MTM? Oh, he was the 123 00:09:22.529 --> 00:09:26.399 MTM yeah, and now, okay, they already divorced. No, he 124 00:09:26.519 --> 00:09:30.600 was the tea and mtm yeah, and I only knew who he was. 125 00:09:31.240 --> 00:09:33.759 I kind of thought it was because they call you fight your first name. 126 00:09:33.840 --> 00:09:37.080 You know, let me call you Mr Tinker, Mr Parsons. I was 127 00:09:37.279 --> 00:09:41.269 Mr Tinker and he got up to go to the bathroom and I took my 128 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:45.629 foot and kind of rolled over what I thought was some screen treat matter. 129 00:09:48.509 --> 00:09:52.100 So great anyway. So what you talking about? stereotyper right, right, 130 00:09:56.259 --> 00:10:00.019 I'll shut up. Okay, so seconds. Okay, so we the the 131 00:10:00.620 --> 00:10:05.220 capitalism piece, the commercial aspect, tapping into your, let's call it a 132 00:10:05.379 --> 00:10:09.889 tribes money pot. Yeah, we had. We had money to spend. 133 00:10:09.009 --> 00:10:11.889 That's same man had money to spend. I think that's a critical point because 134 00:10:11.929 --> 00:10:16.529 when I'm when I talk to the mental health community, people with mental illnesses 135 00:10:16.889 --> 00:10:20.009 have the opposite of that. They don't have money to spend. In other 136 00:10:20.049 --> 00:10:24.960 words, this really severe mental illness is to this disabling ones where, Yep, 137 00:10:24.120 --> 00:10:26.840 can't work or it's very hard. So that's a great point. Like 138 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:33.240 homosexuality does not disable you in that way at all. Right, that there's 139 00:10:33.240 --> 00:10:35.590 stigma involved, for sure, and it's and it's harsh. You never know 140 00:10:35.909 --> 00:10:41.789 how the home being gay disables you. You never will ever really know how 141 00:10:41.909 --> 00:10:45.590 it affects how you're treat it. I will never know to the extent, 142 00:10:45.629 --> 00:10:48.590 right, to the extent that it di there, that it's been specific against 143 00:10:48.629 --> 00:10:52.539 me. I could hear. When I was younger, people would refer to 144 00:10:52.580 --> 00:10:56.940 me as coming eye, he's from San Francisco, if I would go to 145 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:01.580 meetings in southern California. That was the code worker telling like a lawyer and 146 00:11:01.740 --> 00:11:05.730 a meeting with us or something that marks from San Francisco. Wink, wing, 147 00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:09.889 wow. No, yeah, and and I would always think that I'm 148 00:11:09.889 --> 00:11:13.490 going to fucking get you later for that, you know. But yeah, 149 00:11:13.490 --> 00:11:16.250 yeah, but you're right. How would you know? Like you just you 150 00:11:16.330 --> 00:11:20.679 would. There's no way to know, because people are openly mean now. 151 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.399 They're like, especially with trump is present, the becoming more openly racist and 152 00:11:24.519 --> 00:11:28.480 hostile to outsiders. They have to turn that hatred toward gay people yet, 153 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.559 but just a matter of time and then they'll turn it to the mentally ill. 154 00:11:31.679 --> 00:11:37.389 So that's kind of why I bring these up, because homosexuality mental illness 155 00:11:37.470 --> 00:11:39.870 is not to conflate the two. That's saying. I'm not trying to bring 156 00:11:39.950 --> 00:11:43.509 homosexual I ality back to a disorder by any means for sure. What I'm 157 00:11:43.509 --> 00:11:46.220 trying to do is give hope to people who have mental illnesses and let them 158 00:11:46.259 --> 00:11:52.179 know that sometimes there's a pathway to get that stigma eliminated all together. Right. 159 00:11:52.580 --> 00:11:56.500 I think with mental illness. I think. I think even from my 160 00:11:56.539 --> 00:12:01.129 experience here with living with people who have problems, you know, and serious 161 00:12:01.370 --> 00:12:05.970 disorders like schizophrenia. I don't even know all the classification. Sometimes I'm decided 162 00:12:07.090 --> 00:12:11.490 trying to decide these out of paranoid schizophrenic person. I'm kind of learning how 163 00:12:11.529 --> 00:12:15.840 to live with them and to have some kind of conversation and not be mean. 164 00:12:16.399 --> 00:12:18.320 I mean you see it here a lot, like people are sometimes really 165 00:12:18.399 --> 00:12:22.960 mean and to someone that they have. It's just their disorder, you know. 166 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:30.070 But yeah, it's hard it because every people. When you have disorders, 167 00:12:30.149 --> 00:12:33.190 they you tend to lose empathy. Once in a while. You can 168 00:12:33.350 --> 00:12:37.029 be empathetic towards others with disorders and in fact often you're more empathetic because you 169 00:12:37.110 --> 00:12:43.710 understand, but the moment that ptsd kicks in or your mania kicks in or 170 00:12:43.750 --> 00:12:46.179 just general anger, then yeah, you're going to explode on somebody you don't 171 00:12:46.179 --> 00:12:52.419 really know and that's that looks for a really volatile environment and I wouldn't imagine 172 00:12:52.500 --> 00:12:56.139 that would be that way in a house full of gay folks. You know, 173 00:12:56.299 --> 00:12:58.009 there might be a different type of draw Ding of why we'd be fighting 174 00:12:58.049 --> 00:13:03.769 over. You know, where's my shirt? You know away. Why did 175 00:13:03.929 --> 00:13:07.809 you know? Why is that Persian in your bedroom? No, we wouldn't 176 00:13:07.049 --> 00:13:13.919 be just arbitrarily angry spontaneously. I mean married. My my friend on the 177 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:18.440 second floor, she has extreme anxiety, sort of, and she'll repeat what 178 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.960 she says, but I'm so a couple times I've been really upset with her 179 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:24.399 and I don't know how to deal with with it. You know, it's 180 00:13:24.440 --> 00:13:28.350 like married. Please just let me set this box of cookies down, and 181 00:13:28.509 --> 00:13:31.309 you know she won't get out of my way and it's so irritating. And 182 00:13:31.470 --> 00:13:37.230 then I'm saying now, you know, you so, then we just too 183 00:13:37.309 --> 00:13:39.990 normal people that are irritated. Next day I see her and I say, 184 00:13:39.470 --> 00:13:41.580 you know, I apologize and said no, I was in the way, 185 00:13:41.779 --> 00:13:46.899 which is we're just two normal people. But I also know she can't come 186 00:13:46.940 --> 00:13:50.620 in the front door. I've learned this without going through a ritual. So 187 00:13:50.740 --> 00:13:52.899 now if I see her coming, I don't give her any anxiety because I 188 00:13:52.940 --> 00:13:56.529 know that and I just let her open the door. You accept, hold 189 00:13:56.570 --> 00:13:58.850 it for her and she's got a bunch of stuff, you know, six 190 00:14:00.009 --> 00:14:03.929 purs or she's bought and other people that are just mean to her. You 191 00:14:03.090 --> 00:14:07.690 just mean to her about her screaming and stuff, and even we were at 192 00:14:07.690 --> 00:14:11.519 a meeting where she was repeating stuff and names and you she wasn't supposed to. 193 00:14:13.360 --> 00:14:16.879 I knew she couldn't help herself from that. But and anybody with a 194 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:20.440 heart could clearly see in that type of situation that Oh, that's a person 195 00:14:20.559 --> 00:14:24.200 that has an issue and we're not doctors, we can't diagnose it right now. 196 00:14:24.200 --> 00:14:28.269 But simply just understand that that person has an issue. Treat that with 197 00:14:28.350 --> 00:14:31.669 kindness, don't call the police and this type of things. You know she's 198 00:14:31.669 --> 00:14:33.389 gotten the police called on her and reach a shopping in the retail store. 199 00:14:33.870 --> 00:14:37.269 Well, and here's another thing, dude, people used to call the police 200 00:14:37.350 --> 00:14:39.820 on gay people. You know what I mean. So as we go through 201 00:14:39.860 --> 00:14:43.940 all these, the comparisons I've been thinking about since walking through the pride parade 202 00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:46.340 area, I'm started thinking, Wow, yeah, it's in. They all 203 00:14:46.419 --> 00:14:50.460 pop up. I was certain that. You know, the reason I hit 204 00:14:50.539 --> 00:14:54.289 was not invested in the marriage stuff is my experience has been that every time 205 00:14:56.129 --> 00:14:58.330 there's a move forward, because remember, the gay movement was a political movement 206 00:14:58.370 --> 00:15:03.169 until it's came along and in the gay movement ceased to be a political movement 207 00:15:03.250 --> 00:15:07.480 when ace came along. It's just everything that was going forward just was put 208 00:15:07.519 --> 00:15:15.279 on hold for a long time and that's changed movement. But when the marriage 209 00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:20.629 came I knew that there was I didn't even care anymore because they didn't know 210 00:15:20.629 --> 00:15:24.549 whether they would return it to the to the courts or states. Right, 211 00:15:24.710 --> 00:15:28.350 the states or the city. So I was totally shocked and, as I 212 00:15:28.470 --> 00:15:31.789 told you, like, I'm willing to marry for money now and Mary for 213 00:15:31.070 --> 00:15:35.110 you guys. He wants to immigrate. Anybody needs somebody to be married. 214 00:15:35.149 --> 00:15:37.820 We can work out a deal at a nice basement. We can hygiene for 215 00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:39.980 a while. Yeah, it's cool because I would be really good at that 216 00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:45.259 because I observe things. So when they immigration, people ask you what color 217 00:15:45.379 --> 00:15:48.860 socks you wear. I wear, I'll know right. So mark is the 218 00:15:48.940 --> 00:15:56.889 sanctuary city. Mark he's got his own sanctuary city, city of Markville. 219 00:15:56.409 --> 00:16:02.529 I mean so I don't even think about it. But the what were you 220 00:16:02.610 --> 00:16:07.200 talking about? Join the party at bipolar PARTYCOM. So I think I could 221 00:16:07.200 --> 00:16:11.000 never talk to a person here who had like really bad ocd or something and 222 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:15.200 in one day out front there was a man named Richard who used to live 223 00:16:15.240 --> 00:16:18.230 here and when I came here he was a neighbor and I thought he was 224 00:16:18.429 --> 00:16:22.870 completely normal and I kind of would watch him and stuff, and then something 225 00:16:22.990 --> 00:16:26.950 changed, which probably meant he went off his medication on to illegal medication, 226 00:16:27.750 --> 00:16:33.179 which is very, very common. So it's very common in mental illness and 227 00:16:33.620 --> 00:16:41.379 and even in just regular illness. Yeah, just and even here for me, 228 00:16:41.580 --> 00:16:45.419 like, yeah, the few times that I've gone down that road, 229 00:16:45.179 --> 00:16:51.129 it says I totally now understand. Then it is the only thing that brings 230 00:16:51.169 --> 00:16:56.169 you some kind of relief from just all of it. You can just kind 231 00:16:56.169 --> 00:17:00.409 of blow yourself away for a tiny bit. And and so that's why you 232 00:17:00.450 --> 00:17:03.759 see a lot of people with mental illness stop their medications and go crazy. 233 00:17:04.119 --> 00:17:07.839 Wait, can we talk about that? Yeah, so when you said to 234 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:10.480 really understand it, because when you went, you'd say, went down that 235 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:15.400 road. So we talk in mental illness, drug addiction and or both. 236 00:17:15.869 --> 00:17:23.829 Well, I'm here. I'm here for really serious depression. I spent something 237 00:17:23.869 --> 00:17:29.470 happened to me in two thousand and six that took me so out of my 238 00:17:29.589 --> 00:17:33.099 life. I was with the same person for three thirty five years. Believe 239 00:17:33.099 --> 00:17:36.539 that or not? Big Loss. Yet thirty five years sudden loss, and 240 00:17:37.619 --> 00:17:41.859 I who you're talking to you now, is half part of my I. 241 00:17:42.220 --> 00:17:48.369 I always say I survived and didn't survive, both at the same time. 242 00:17:48.210 --> 00:17:55.730 So that's happened to me. It wasn't drugs, it was just just shock 243 00:17:55.930 --> 00:17:59.400 of what happened, to lose my partner and find that out on in a 244 00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:04.799 answering machine. It's like you you have no idea what that feels like. 245 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.759 So I put a long time, you know, I was on the run 246 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:14.670 for a few years, just moving, not knowing. I you know, 247 00:18:14.910 --> 00:18:18.670 I it was just a really rough time. I feel like you were chasing 248 00:18:18.789 --> 00:18:22.869 something or running from I felt like, because no know what to do with 249 00:18:22.990 --> 00:18:25.910 it. No one, not, no one, not to do with me, 250 00:18:26.549 --> 00:18:33.779 like suddenly, mark is this crazy and everyone was kind of dependent upon 251 00:18:33.900 --> 00:18:37.940 me, you know, and I'm just like I was on the run. 252 00:18:38.099 --> 00:18:45.690 I ended up I ended up staying with my mother with a blanket over my 253 00:18:45.930 --> 00:18:52.730 head in her basement for almost two years and tried it was time to come 254 00:18:52.809 --> 00:18:56.200 back here. And Yeah, I mean I didn't think I was going to 255 00:18:56.240 --> 00:19:00.119 make it for the longest time and I had a psychiatrist to it say on 256 00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:08.240 this story again. So all the stuff. It just like. So when 257 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:11.789 I ended up here, I ended up here through you know this, all 258 00:19:11.829 --> 00:19:17.910 these city programs of ended up on the street, you know. And was 259 00:19:17.990 --> 00:19:21.950 that from depression directly, or do you think depression plus drugs? No, 260 00:19:22.150 --> 00:19:30.059 it was all from it was all from it was from depression. I don't 261 00:19:30.059 --> 00:19:33.579 eat. I don't even know. I mean I remember the doctor in Colorado 262 00:19:33.819 --> 00:19:37.299 said to me, let's pretend where in New York City and you know, 263 00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:41.210 and I'm a fancy shrink and Ensti so I would be saying things to like 264 00:19:41.450 --> 00:19:47.210 this to you. Would you consider electro shock right? You know, would 265 00:19:47.210 --> 00:19:52.369 you consider you know this or that? I'm trying to jump start you back 266 00:19:52.490 --> 00:19:55.519 into some because I'm really concerned it's you're going to, you know, just 267 00:19:55.720 --> 00:20:00.440 fade out and I said no, electric shock. No, you know, 268 00:20:00.480 --> 00:20:08.349 I just was resistant to any treatment because I couldn't even I don't know how 269 00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:11.069 I made the decisions that I even did. Some of them are wrong. 270 00:20:11.589 --> 00:20:15.789 But See, I'm like, Fay, what do you think? WHAT'S A 271 00:20:15.829 --> 00:20:18.990 wrong decision? What do you do? You have like regrets? Do you 272 00:20:18.069 --> 00:20:22.500 really think it was a wrong decision or just something that you wished would but 273 00:20:22.619 --> 00:20:26.220 we have. What I regret it's when Tim died. I just let everybody 274 00:20:26.579 --> 00:20:33.779 run my life and there were circumstances which I just I just totally got pushed 275 00:20:33.819 --> 00:20:41.289 around and I just listen same I was out of my mind, the set 276 00:20:41.329 --> 00:20:45.410 of my mind. You know, I ended up in every I have every 277 00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:52.079 mental hospital in San Francisco. Yeah, and that those kind of things. 278 00:20:52.160 --> 00:20:56.119 It's just like I never saw such cruelty as I did in those places. 279 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:59.759 I'll never go back there. Do you know? It's not a place for 280 00:20:59.839 --> 00:21:03.039 help. So no place for helps. No. So you know, when 281 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:08.549 I see all this stuff, the depression and stuff, and it's really stigmatized. 282 00:21:08.589 --> 00:21:11.470 So you getting back to the stigma. Think I appreciate you sharing that. 283 00:21:11.549 --> 00:21:15.190 I've kind of fell off the deep end when my wife left me and 284 00:21:15.309 --> 00:21:19.579 I went into that fucked up just I'm lost, I'm depressed, I'm falling, 285 00:21:19.779 --> 00:21:22.900 like constant fault like falling. How do I fall while I'm lying in 286 00:21:23.019 --> 00:21:27.140 bed in the dark? It just it was amazing in hindsight, amazing in 287 00:21:27.259 --> 00:21:30.819 a bad way. So yeah, and I'm shocking. And it did last 288 00:21:30.859 --> 00:21:37.769 for a couple of years last year like wow, but reminds me now. 289 00:21:37.849 --> 00:21:41.210 So in the mental health arena, say on twitter, facebook and whatnot, 290 00:21:42.450 --> 00:21:47.009 a lot of people are both out of one side of their head. They're 291 00:21:47.049 --> 00:21:49.319 complaining about the ailments, how bad I feel, how she did, I 292 00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:53.200 feel better. On the other half they're saying, oh, why is everybody 293 00:21:53.279 --> 00:21:56.799 they always stigmatizing us? Why are they stigmatizing us? and to me I 294 00:21:56.880 --> 00:22:03.150 think this is a is a conundrum because effectively they are spreading the stigma on 295 00:22:03.230 --> 00:22:06.950 one hand and complaining about the stigma on the other hand. For example, 296 00:22:06.990 --> 00:22:11.670 if in the gay community all you ran around was touting aid statistics, people 297 00:22:11.789 --> 00:22:18.140 probably wouldn't embrace homosexuality right. So what they did instead was they showed facts. 298 00:22:18.180 --> 00:22:19.779 They said here's how age is spread, and so, you know, 299 00:22:19.859 --> 00:22:25.259 basically try to do diffuse the stigma with facts. In the case of mass 300 00:22:25.299 --> 00:22:29.819 killers, they try to point to the mentally ill, but in fact it's 301 00:22:29.819 --> 00:22:33.849 usually angry white guys that are not mentally ill, or at least not diagnosed. 302 00:22:33.970 --> 00:22:37.890 So pointing to the facts always helps. But yeah, do you have 303 00:22:37.930 --> 00:22:41.450 any thoughts on that? Well, the first thing they're saying that it's like 304 00:22:42.730 --> 00:22:48.200 what happened in the age crisis is, you know it. The first thing 305 00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:52.000 that I thought about when you said that was all that stuff that surface of 306 00:22:52.079 --> 00:22:57.319 people intentionally infecting themselves, Suff stuff that would I don't think that a lot 307 00:22:57.359 --> 00:23:02.589 of American knew some of that stuff that was going on because it was something. 308 00:23:02.869 --> 00:23:07.710 I thought, this is really bad, just not imagewise. This is 309 00:23:07.789 --> 00:23:14.420 really hard to think about on any level that people want just wanted to get 310 00:23:14.460 --> 00:23:18.380 the AIDS virus so they would get have it and know they wouldn't have to 311 00:23:18.460 --> 00:23:19.859 worry the rest of their life that they might get it. They'd have it 312 00:23:21.539 --> 00:23:23.500 and it it's called I didn't want like chicken box in a way. Yeah, 313 00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:27.490 I mean they call it breeding, which is just this horrible interesting I've 314 00:23:27.529 --> 00:23:32.049 never heard that term of the kind. I mean. I like to say 315 00:23:32.049 --> 00:23:37.410 that word because it's like it's so integrated now into that time that they had 316 00:23:37.490 --> 00:23:42.599 words for it. They just wanted to they wanted to get ill so that 317 00:23:42.680 --> 00:23:45.799 they would be free of it. Yeah, no, I mean there's some 318 00:23:45.880 --> 00:23:49.880 some logic in that, I guess. But back to the other point. 319 00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:53.119 That wasn't the advertised thing, you know, that's not what they were advertising. 320 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.509 To destigmatize homosexuality. So in the same sense, I don't understand people 321 00:24:00.150 --> 00:24:03.829 who are complaining about their mental illnesses on one hand and then say, why 322 00:24:03.869 --> 00:24:07.750 are you stigmatizing me? I'm horrible, I'm depressed, I feel like Shit. 323 00:24:07.069 --> 00:24:11.140 Why are you stigmatizing and just going back and forth. Well, I 324 00:24:11.180 --> 00:24:12.539 can think of I don't know, this probably won't make sense to anybody, 325 00:24:12.579 --> 00:24:18.339 but I can think of even someone I know here, like, if I've 326 00:24:18.420 --> 00:24:22.099 no idea why my phone is now announcing this, I've turned something on, 327 00:24:22.619 --> 00:24:25.490 like like when you, I know I've known before, like if you have 328 00:24:25.609 --> 00:24:30.890 know something who's hypochondriact or who you know has some issues or thinks they have 329 00:24:30.930 --> 00:24:36.529 an undiagnosed illness, like I know someone here who's like that. And like, 330 00:24:37.450 --> 00:24:41.759 if you have an undiagnosed illness for twenty two years, you have a 331 00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:48.319 diagnosis, and that diagnosis is is not medical, it's it's psychological behavior. 332 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:52.990 Yeah, yes, and you know if you're trying to sell that, you 333 00:24:53.069 --> 00:24:57.990 know, if you're trying to sell your situation it. You know as it 334 00:24:59.269 --> 00:25:02.109 no one's going to buy it. No one's going to believe this person, 335 00:25:02.349 --> 00:25:10.420 ever that she hasn't no diagnosis. And how awful her life is because she 336 00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:14.779 has one hour a day. She has no energy. And I'm not saying 337 00:25:14.819 --> 00:25:18.539 I'm just saying it's just weird to me because you do have a diagnosis, 338 00:25:18.099 --> 00:25:22.890 you know you have some problem, and you could have gotten disability, you 339 00:25:22.970 --> 00:25:29.569 know, and not live so horribly. But she wouldn't face that. You 340 00:25:29.690 --> 00:25:32.529 know that was true or I'm seeing. Yeah, no, that makes sense. 341 00:25:33.130 --> 00:25:34.920 Well, people that it gets back to okay. Like, for example, 342 00:25:34.960 --> 00:25:40.839 when I got really poor in San Francisco many years back, I was 343 00:25:40.920 --> 00:25:44.359 fucking struggling, couldn't eat, I was shoplift and cheese, you know, 344 00:25:44.519 --> 00:25:48.720 just to fucking survived. Wow, I went to the foodstamp place, whatever 345 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:53.230 it's called these days, to get my little ebt card and and I was 346 00:25:53.309 --> 00:25:56.630 on the edge, dude, I was on the edge. I stood in 347 00:25:56.750 --> 00:25:59.190 line, had nothing to do that day. I was like out of work, 348 00:25:59.309 --> 00:26:02.390 out of money, and got up to the lady and filled out the 349 00:26:02.390 --> 00:26:04.619 paperwork. She goes, Oh, okay, you're going to get to hundred 350 00:26:04.619 --> 00:26:07.700 and seventy five, and I almost almost start to cry. I'm like, 351 00:26:07.819 --> 00:26:11.500 Hoph I want to tell like a lot of money, mean you fucking Hell 352 00:26:11.619 --> 00:26:14.259 of money. I'm like, Oh, that's amazing and I'm like, what's 353 00:26:14.299 --> 00:26:15.579 that paper for? It goes, oh, that's next month's. I'm like 354 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:21.809 to seventy five every month. She goes yeah, and then I literally did 355 00:26:21.890 --> 00:26:25.769 start to kind of cry a little bit and I saw wiping my tears and 356 00:26:25.970 --> 00:26:30.049 like she goes, she's so, she was trying to be kind. She 357 00:26:30.170 --> 00:26:33.960 says, Oh, it's okay, you didn't know. And then, without 358 00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:38.279 missing a beat, but you didn't ask. So like well, yeah, 359 00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:41.880 that's true, I didn't ask. So all the suffering people go through a 360 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:45.119 lot of times it's because they didn't ask the right questions. So a lot 361 00:26:45.160 --> 00:26:48.269 of suffering, I found as people, especially the mentally ill, like look 362 00:26:48.269 --> 00:26:52.750 at the president's he suffers from what I've found to be called a Nosa Noitia, 363 00:26:52.190 --> 00:26:56.390 which is a mental disease, which means lack of insight. It means 364 00:26:56.430 --> 00:27:00.789 you lack the inner the ability to even know that you have a mental disease. 365 00:27:00.869 --> 00:27:03.980 So therefore you never go get it treated because you don't think you have 366 00:27:03.259 --> 00:27:07.220 one. Okay, and since you never get it treated, you're going to 367 00:27:07.259 --> 00:27:11.539 be a fucking mental patient forevermore because you just haven't been diagnosed, because you 368 00:27:11.660 --> 00:27:15.890 refuse the diagnosis. Because just because you refuse a diagnosis and refuse to see 369 00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:21.329 a doctor doesn't mean you're mentally fit for anything. It's kind of the same 370 00:27:21.329 --> 00:27:25.009 way with registering the gun. We make people who buy guns go register them, 371 00:27:25.410 --> 00:27:29.650 but we have people with brains that never ever have mental health checks, 372 00:27:30.279 --> 00:27:32.960 it's true, and we let them run the country. And that made me 373 00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.279 think. You know, my doctor now till she has to remind me, 374 00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:42.279 like I'm so once in a while she has to remind me that I'm depressed, 375 00:27:42.519 --> 00:27:45.789 because I think that I think it's just me. I have law. 376 00:27:45.869 --> 00:27:51.230 I have forgotten that I'm in treatment for depression. Well, that's there's a 377 00:27:51.309 --> 00:27:52.710 distinction there. I think that she should like. So, you might not 378 00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:57.150 be depressed, like actively sad right now, but you clinically have depression. 379 00:27:57.150 --> 00:27:59.779 Yes, you know what I mean. Yeah, and, but, but, 380 00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.819 and I'm I allectually know it, but on a day today function, 381 00:28:02.859 --> 00:28:07.579 I'm not going around thinking I'm depressed or using it as an excuse right for 382 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:11.259 why I can't do anythings. And and like I'm always being told I'm too 383 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:17.049 isolative, I should get out of my room, and then sometimes I think, 384 00:28:17.049 --> 00:28:19.049 well, that's the only place I feel safe yeah, and I see 385 00:28:19.049 --> 00:28:22.410 you all. That's why we talked, because I see you out in the 386 00:28:22.490 --> 00:28:25.369 lobby a lot. So I'm doing your part for sure to try to interact 387 00:28:25.450 --> 00:28:27.640 in inappropriate way. You're not on the street with those. Well, some 388 00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:33.440 people. I'm on the street, because that instantially like it's our front yard. 389 00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.160 Really. Yeah, I have a friend out there and bet I'm really 390 00:28:36.200 --> 00:28:38.039 I'm really worried. He's maybe a died last night. I have a friend 391 00:28:38.119 --> 00:28:44.789 who is out there who has drug issues and mental health issues. Why do 392 00:28:44.789 --> 00:28:48.869 you think it might have died last night? Because I saw him out some 393 00:28:48.069 --> 00:28:52.549 out there last night. He had an infection in his arm. I never 394 00:28:53.029 --> 00:28:57.099 seen it. Was choozing and I said, Brad, you have to go 395 00:28:57.420 --> 00:29:00.660 to the hospital, you have to go to hospital, I'm going to call 396 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:04.819 an ambulance. You have got to go to the hospital. And he's trying 397 00:29:04.859 --> 00:29:11.089 to keep he's a smart person. This is a person who saved my life 398 00:29:11.089 --> 00:29:15.970 here. This is a strange your who literally saved my life here. I 399 00:29:15.089 --> 00:29:19.089 kind of you know, sometimes I wish it hadn't happened, but and he 400 00:29:19.170 --> 00:29:22.730 didn't know me and he saved my life. Literally saying he's out there on 401 00:29:22.809 --> 00:29:26.200 the street. He got evicted. He could get septic with that thing if 402 00:29:26.400 --> 00:29:33.480 he didn't go last night. You know, that's outside and that's like what 403 00:29:33.599 --> 00:29:34.920 can I do for him in? But Anyway, what was my point? 404 00:29:36.279 --> 00:29:38.230 Damn it. See, that's okay, that's fun, because people listen to 405 00:29:38.309 --> 00:29:41.509 the podcast will hear it and like, Oh yeah, that was a neat 406 00:29:41.549 --> 00:29:44.549 story. It's really hard when where those meetings people are talking people out front, 407 00:29:44.630 --> 00:29:48.829 because it's like I just can't talk about those people because I don't know 408 00:29:48.910 --> 00:29:51.869 that. Actually, that was my point. You don't socially isolate any more 409 00:29:51.869 --> 00:29:55.420 than most people, and the interesting point is that when you do, those 410 00:29:55.420 --> 00:29:57.059 are the kind of folks that you make friends with and interact with. So 411 00:29:57.140 --> 00:30:00.539 I think that's powerful. A lot of people sitting there could you little cubicles 412 00:30:00.579 --> 00:30:03.900 at their office and go to their because you little comb in the suburbs in 413 00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:07.289 the middle of America, and they're like, Oh, I'm social no, 414 00:30:07.450 --> 00:30:11.490 you're not. You're sitting in a cubicle, you're sitting in your car and 415 00:30:11.529 --> 00:30:15.130 you're sitting in your house. So, mark, like you just said, 416 00:30:15.170 --> 00:30:18.529 you think you're socially isolating yourself, you're actually doing a good job we're in 417 00:30:18.529 --> 00:30:21.329 the middle of a fucking crazy ass city, dude, right here in this 418 00:30:21.410 --> 00:30:25.079 particular neighborhood. You know, just poking your finger out to test the wind 419 00:30:25.200 --> 00:30:27.960 is something else here, I know. But I'm also I'm also, I 420 00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:34.000 don't know if I've always been this way, but I am pathologically, pathologically 421 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.430 over empathetic. I mean, it's just like, I will, I mean, 422 00:30:38.470 --> 00:30:44.109 I just it's maybe this is busting the of it. I mean, 423 00:30:44.230 --> 00:30:47.109 you know, you have to be kind of tough here, and I will. 424 00:30:47.390 --> 00:30:49.299 I will put some if someone needs a dollar and it's my wallet, 425 00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:56.579 you know, fine, but I mean, I can't give Brad my last 426 00:30:56.259 --> 00:31:00.180 twenty so he can not be sick. You know, it's just like, 427 00:31:00.380 --> 00:31:04.809 well, then you'll be horrible. It's a horrible you know, I'm not 428 00:31:04.890 --> 00:31:07.890 on drugs, but will. Here's my theory. In not my theory, 429 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:11.809 but the thing I've adopted since I read it a while back, is that 430 00:31:11.930 --> 00:31:15.890 we become the average of the five people that we are around the most. 431 00:31:17.170 --> 00:31:18.599 So, like Whoa so, therefore, yet don't give you money to people 432 00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:22.640 because of the then you'll be poor just like them. So, I mean, 433 00:31:22.680 --> 00:31:26.519 I could have given Brad Twenty dollars. I knew yesterday they was probably 434 00:31:26.799 --> 00:31:29.880 would be for heroin, but I was trying to get him to go to 435 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:36.230 the hospital right and so I went to my atm to see what there was 436 00:31:36.349 --> 00:31:38.950 left and I got a twenty dollar bill and I gave him five and I 437 00:31:40.069 --> 00:31:42.710 just thought last night then when I went out to see my thought. I've 438 00:31:42.710 --> 00:31:47.900 been thinking that every day now, like the next word I've got hurt is 439 00:31:47.980 --> 00:31:49.660 that he died. I'm expecting Brad to die. He's thirty seven years old, 440 00:31:51.140 --> 00:31:52.460 is Rhanda. I'm so he's going to die because he when he got 441 00:31:52.460 --> 00:31:56.380 out on the street and it was his own fault here. I mean he 442 00:31:56.539 --> 00:32:02.809 didn't pay his rent and it's just it's a really weird expense. You've got 443 00:32:02.849 --> 00:32:07.329 the mental you know, yester stal health out there. I'm mental health in 444 00:32:07.730 --> 00:32:10.130 or. The only difference is you just haven't broke yet, because this is 445 00:32:10.369 --> 00:32:14.490 I tell people that I know it's like a mental hospital, but no doctors 446 00:32:14.529 --> 00:32:16.680 work here. Yes, dump all the people here in good luck and then 447 00:32:16.680 --> 00:32:22.160 if you break, then eventually the property management system will just say, Oh, 448 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:25.319 you didn't pay reditary like cold hard property management. There's no social service 449 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:30.710 involved to help you. That is crazy. So, getting back to the 450 00:32:30.349 --> 00:32:36.150 comparative stigma thing real quick before we wrap it up. Only if you could 451 00:32:36.390 --> 00:32:38.109 know this is a great people love this because it's way better than just hearing 452 00:32:38.150 --> 00:32:42.029 me talk to myself, which is what most of my podcast listeners maybe you 453 00:32:42.069 --> 00:32:45.059 can edit it, because if I sound really dumb. Nope, man, 454 00:32:45.099 --> 00:32:47.019 your voice sounds great too for podcast. All right, have you ever heard 455 00:32:47.099 --> 00:32:51.900 watch the documentary? Do I sound gay? If you've seen the yes, 456 00:32:51.980 --> 00:32:52.819 I I can't believe you. Oh, I have a lot to say about 457 00:32:52.940 --> 00:32:55.819 that. Amazing. Yeah, because I'm one of those people. We I 458 00:32:57.220 --> 00:33:00.769 I'm one of those people who tried to change my voice to not sound gator, 459 00:33:00.809 --> 00:33:02.650 to say to not sound gay, because, wow, you've seen that. 460 00:33:04.289 --> 00:33:07.130 I watch every documentary can get my hands on, especially that one, 461 00:33:07.170 --> 00:33:09.210 because I've been fascinated and like, where's gay land? Where do you adopt 462 00:33:09.250 --> 00:33:15.000 that accent? And I'm into just anthropology and human behavior. You like. 463 00:33:15.079 --> 00:33:16.640 So you heard what you heard, that it's about a tribe, it's the 464 00:33:16.680 --> 00:33:21.200 change, that's the language of the tribe. Well, yeah, but a 465 00:33:21.240 --> 00:33:23.079 lot of people don't. I don't know why. I hate those people that 466 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:28.190 you know that you don't but you know, most of people don't sound gay, 467 00:33:28.670 --> 00:33:31.589 but I sound gay and I have my own theories and I have I 468 00:33:31.630 --> 00:33:37.390 understand their theories and I also listen to a fresh are about linguistics in the 469 00:33:37.509 --> 00:33:42.059 debate on, you know, vocal fry and you can I used to try 470 00:33:42.980 --> 00:33:45.980 to not sound gay on my own. I never would have, well, 471 00:33:45.980 --> 00:33:51.539 I might have, actually I was. I would have been too embarrassed to 472 00:33:51.700 --> 00:33:57.569 go to voice coach or whatever it is right try to do that, but 473 00:33:57.650 --> 00:34:01.809 I tried on my own and then I just I gave up like he did 474 00:34:01.890 --> 00:34:07.210 in the end. I thought what he tried to do I tried to do 475 00:34:07.490 --> 00:34:09.360 on my own and it just fuck it. I mean, I can't change 476 00:34:09.400 --> 00:34:13.760 my voice. My theory is and they had it in the documentary. There 477 00:34:13.880 --> 00:34:15.920 was, but I felt felt like it's just a cross between the masculine and 478 00:34:15.960 --> 00:34:19.920 the feminine, and I think they were talking about that, weren't they in 479 00:34:20.039 --> 00:34:25.630 put the documentary that it's just my voice and I've sometimes people take them from 480 00:34:25.630 --> 00:34:30.110 the south. I don't feel like I sound like a woman now and there 481 00:34:30.190 --> 00:34:32.230 are southern gays right and yeah, if you hear a gay guy from the 482 00:34:32.269 --> 00:34:36.110 south it's like, oh no, that's gay and south and like like. 483 00:34:36.269 --> 00:34:38.699 You sound like you're from San Francisco. It's definitely a Western, you know, 484 00:34:38.860 --> 00:34:42.019 accent, but did the first time you heard my voice, didn't you? 485 00:34:42.219 --> 00:34:45.340 Didn't you know right away? If there was any question, I'd start 486 00:34:45.340 --> 00:34:47.900 assumes, you know, in San Francisco, and you know, it's like 487 00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:52.099 I just stopped judging because right, like, look at me, I'm I 488 00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:57.769 purposefully don't exude any which direction on purpose. Yeah, I'm some and I 489 00:34:57.809 --> 00:35:00.409 don't have an accent. Well, this is why I brought it up, 490 00:35:00.409 --> 00:35:05.210 because people from other countries like Russia, the UK, the Ukraine and places 491 00:35:05.289 --> 00:35:08.519 like that, they swear I'm one of them and I have an acting coach 492 00:35:09.039 --> 00:35:13.880 in five times now, twice, three times in La and twice up here. 493 00:35:14.239 --> 00:35:17.400 My lift or Uber driver have said, Dude, what's your accents? 494 00:35:17.719 --> 00:35:22.469 I know that accit the you that's a really good American accent, and I'm 495 00:35:22.510 --> 00:35:24.670 like no, dude, that's that's my act. This is how I talk. 496 00:35:24.829 --> 00:35:27.710 No, no, where are you from? Okay, and I'm like 497 00:35:28.070 --> 00:35:30.389 are you doing a really good American accent? Like what the fuck? You 498 00:35:30.909 --> 00:35:34.510 have a good American accent. That's true, but I don't I'm not sure 499 00:35:34.550 --> 00:35:37.340 what that is to the well, you know, you know when you when 500 00:35:37.340 --> 00:35:39.019 you go to Europe and you hear a British, you know, you think 501 00:35:39.019 --> 00:35:42.780 that's a British accent. We forget we have an accent, right, right, 502 00:35:42.860 --> 00:35:45.340 and we have we have. Yeah, yeah, especially California, where 503 00:35:45.380 --> 00:35:47.340 the deep of America. Yeah, I don't know. What what are they 504 00:35:47.340 --> 00:35:50.730 thinking? I'm in Europe. What are they I don't know. What do 505 00:35:50.809 --> 00:35:53.690 they think when they hear me talk? What's weird to me is, you 506 00:35:53.849 --> 00:35:57.730 see, you kind of have a southern Twang, though. Were you from 507 00:35:57.769 --> 00:35:59.769 the south at all, or you were from the East Coast? I thought 508 00:35:59.809 --> 00:36:01.650 I'm at from a little town in a high desert. So you know, 509 00:36:01.849 --> 00:36:06.119 this accent has is not. Okay, so that's not south. That's more 510 00:36:06.159 --> 00:36:09.039 gay than south. Totally totally get. And you know what? I can 511 00:36:09.079 --> 00:36:12.800 do that. I can do all the the other slang like you know, 512 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:15.159 but I you know, girlfriend and all that stuff. But all right, 513 00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.469 but you're like a wise I haven't have enough burden. Yeah, I enough 514 00:36:19.510 --> 00:36:25.349 burden just to have credibility and have this this this voice. That's what's so 515 00:36:25.469 --> 00:36:29.550 hard for me is it's a trip getting older too like as I get older, 516 00:36:29.550 --> 00:36:31.789 I find I have to draw up some of the skateboard or slang, 517 00:36:31.860 --> 00:36:35.539 the punk rocks Lang. Yeah, the street, but it's hard. Like 518 00:36:35.659 --> 00:36:38.619 I say, Hella fucking shit all that. I talk like that all the 519 00:36:38.659 --> 00:36:42.300 time still, and I can adopt that around here. I can start, 520 00:36:42.420 --> 00:36:45.539 you know, I can kind of, you know, adopt some of the 521 00:36:45.659 --> 00:36:50.650 slang from all the that I hear here. If you could eliminate stigma from 522 00:36:51.090 --> 00:36:52.530 one or the other, if you could only pick, a genie said I 523 00:36:52.610 --> 00:37:01.119 will wipe away stigma from homosexuality or depression. Which would you pick? At 524 00:37:01.159 --> 00:37:07.440 this point in my life, I would probably say depression and those kind of 525 00:37:07.440 --> 00:37:09.880 mental illnesses that people have some control over. That would be nice. I 526 00:37:10.639 --> 00:37:17.269 feel like I've been lucky enough. So give some people like because, you 527 00:37:17.349 --> 00:37:23.750 know, just give some schizophrenic people a break. Just go along with it, 528 00:37:23.909 --> 00:37:27.949 you know, or just just work with what you have to work with. 529 00:37:28.230 --> 00:37:30.500 You know, that's what I do. Just you can. You can 530 00:37:30.579 --> 00:37:37.539 deal with the person schizophrenic if they're, you know, and not say me 531 00:37:37.619 --> 00:37:42.179 mean and cruel or act on do mean things on their behalf. Yeah, 532 00:37:42.219 --> 00:37:44.690 you know, there's just too much. You know, it's all sime you, 533 00:37:44.769 --> 00:37:49.010 I'm wondering that time. Maybe they're speaking the language of the architect to 534 00:37:49.130 --> 00:37:52.130 us, of the Grand Arcs, whether you call it God or the game 535 00:37:52.210 --> 00:37:55.449 program or whatever. Sometimes I'm when I hear a schizophrenic say some weird shit 536 00:37:55.610 --> 00:38:00.079 like Purple Basketball, Yo, Yo, and I'm like well, well, 537 00:38:00.079 --> 00:38:02.880 I better write that down. I'm pulling out my phone like a better fucking 538 00:38:02.920 --> 00:38:07.760 google this sequence of words, thinking that maybe that schizophrenic person is a rip 539 00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:09.679 in the Matrix and is telling me something I need to know. So I 540 00:38:09.800 --> 00:38:14.590 think if you ignore schizophrenic people on the streets, you do so at your 541 00:38:14.630 --> 00:38:17.150 own peril. They are sending you a message. Yeah, that's a good 542 00:38:17.269 --> 00:38:21.110 that's good way of putting it. Well, so it's one way to think 543 00:38:21.110 --> 00:38:22.469 about when you're trying to be kind to somebody. Just make it a game. 544 00:38:22.949 --> 00:38:28.539 Be Kind and remember it's there. You know, Young said about schizophrenia 545 00:38:28.699 --> 00:38:31.900 that that it, that is the world they're in and they're they're shifting that 546 00:38:31.980 --> 00:38:38.099 world all the time and if you listen to them, it's not they haven't 547 00:38:38.099 --> 00:38:44.289 been influenced by what they've seen or heard. Their processing that stuff some way. 548 00:38:44.369 --> 00:38:46.769 That's completely differently right. Whole different perspective. I have a something. 549 00:38:46.849 --> 00:38:51.730 I lost it. That's fascinating that that you would eliminate the the depression stigma 550 00:38:51.929 --> 00:38:55.159 over the homosexual stigma. But is it? Maybe that's because the homosexual stigma's 551 00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.400 largely been reduced in the past generation. Well, I'll tell you this, 552 00:38:59.639 --> 00:39:02.440 even though I've never been hit physically until I came to the Cadillac or yeah, 553 00:39:02.639 --> 00:39:07.000 because of I've never been at head violence on the until it came here, 554 00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:12.190 which was by accident. But I've seen more mistreatment here at the Cadillac 555 00:39:12.710 --> 00:39:17.750 of mental health people, by people management, everybody, by the industry that's 556 00:39:17.789 --> 00:39:24.500 here to help us. HMM. And so I guess that's why I'm I 557 00:39:24.699 --> 00:39:30.300 I I noticed it more. I notice that I'm a minority here, which 558 00:39:30.340 --> 00:39:34.659 is really interesting when you what kind of Milady. Well, I'm within the 559 00:39:34.699 --> 00:39:38.809 CATALAC I'm with a community. I'm white and there's a larger Latino population here 560 00:39:38.849 --> 00:39:42.730 and yeah, I don't know about black population, but I'm part of it. 561 00:39:43.690 --> 00:39:47.610 You know I'm not. It's hind of more isolated here. It's weird 562 00:39:47.650 --> 00:39:53.360 being part of a minority population when we're still we've had a lifetime of entitlement 563 00:39:53.480 --> 00:39:55.320 yeah, you know what I mean? Is that weird? I find that 564 00:39:55.360 --> 00:39:59.960 weird to because we're definitely there are far fewer white people in here, but 565 00:40:00.079 --> 00:40:01.679 we carry the burden of like Oh, well, you had you had chance 566 00:40:01.760 --> 00:40:06.480 all your life, buddy. Well, yeah, and I never feel like 567 00:40:06.519 --> 00:40:08.829 I was. I'm I was, even though I was a gay white male. 568 00:40:08.949 --> 00:40:14.389 I never felt like I was. I wasn't afforded all those proses. 569 00:40:15.230 --> 00:40:17.070 Now and when back when your kid, you don't understand, you don't realize 570 00:40:17.070 --> 00:40:20.630 what white privilege is. You don't really because you live in a white world. 571 00:40:21.110 --> 00:40:23.739 So your privilege is relative to other white people. So when you're another 572 00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:28.420 privilege. Yeah, so when you're a kid and you're in like third grade 573 00:40:28.619 --> 00:40:30.980 and you're just comparing yourself to other rich white kids and you're the poor white 574 00:40:31.019 --> 00:40:35.059 kid, you don't it's hard to comprehend what it. You know, spos 575 00:40:35.099 --> 00:40:37.809 is something. I had a clean well, right, and you know, 576 00:40:37.889 --> 00:40:42.849 my sister didn't fucking government cheese. I know there's no government cheese, but 577 00:40:42.929 --> 00:40:45.369 I had to clean that fucking pilled filter. You know, I didn't have 578 00:40:45.449 --> 00:40:47.489 any crank to do like they do now. That just backwashes it. So 579 00:40:47.929 --> 00:40:54.320 yeah, there was there was a burden with all the privilege. Yeah, 580 00:40:54.880 --> 00:40:59.400 well, when you working for the privileged people. Yeah, I don't want 581 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:01.960 to convolute. The word privilege in that sense is just kind of weird, 582 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:07.829 because we do have white privilege and man, but it just sucks that sometimes 583 00:41:07.869 --> 00:41:10.389 I feel guilty that it waste it, but I'm the like, how do 584 00:41:10.469 --> 00:41:15.429 I better use my white privilege to help everybody instead of just me? Oh, 585 00:41:15.590 --> 00:41:16.869 I just want to help me. Now I don't, you know, 586 00:41:17.510 --> 00:41:21.139 just trying to survive, just get through this stage. I just want to 587 00:41:21.179 --> 00:41:22.820 sell my abilities. I wanted to see how bad that is. I want 588 00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:27.340 to sell my village to marry somebody. I don't care about it marriage at 589 00:41:27.340 --> 00:41:29.780 all. Go to a state where they don't allow it and I'll just say, 590 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:31.500 Hey, I'll give you my California a gay marriage ticket. I'm going 591 00:41:31.500 --> 00:41:35.449 to put ads in certain countries. That's how do yeah, you know, 592 00:41:35.690 --> 00:41:39.570 and advertise for a mayor some somebody in another culture who wants to come here 593 00:41:39.610 --> 00:41:43.730 and I'll marry them. That's interesting thing. That's another thing I found about 594 00:41:43.730 --> 00:41:46.639 mental illness in homosexuality is that in some parts of the world neither one is 595 00:41:46.719 --> 00:41:51.920 even recognized as a thing. No, I mean, I mean it. 596 00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:55.400 The behavior occurs, but society is and parts of the world just don't acknowledge 597 00:41:55.440 --> 00:41:59.880 them as the thing. When you first came here, you said you were 598 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:02.909 kind of very vocal about your very vocal about being having depression. Yeah, 599 00:42:04.110 --> 00:42:06.309 and I'm sorry, that's kind of amazing. You know, this dudes come 600 00:42:06.389 --> 00:42:08.269 to be our director and he was kind of like really out and I thought, 601 00:42:08.349 --> 00:42:10.550 wow, you know, you weren't bothered at all by it. I 602 00:42:10.670 --> 00:42:14.110 will as I'm functioning right. I got the job, they hired me. 603 00:42:14.190 --> 00:42:15.380 I mean, yeah, nobody. Mean you were looking like for I was 604 00:42:15.380 --> 00:42:17.539 kind of looking around. I'm thinking about what do you do? The city 605 00:42:17.659 --> 00:42:21.260 services? I was thinking, you know, I know a good one. 606 00:42:21.300 --> 00:42:23.780 It's four hundred an hour. I mean, you know, I thought I 607 00:42:23.860 --> 00:42:29.300 was already looking for I go to the group. Actually that St Francis really 608 00:42:29.340 --> 00:42:32.130 close. It's pretty cool. Depression group twice a week. I don't go 609 00:42:32.250 --> 00:42:37.010 twice a week because a lot of times I'm fine green. Being around depressed 610 00:42:37.050 --> 00:42:40.369 people fucking depresses a shit out of me when I'm feeling fine, and I'm 611 00:42:40.449 --> 00:42:43.969 every depressed person I'm sure would feel the same way. But yeah, if 612 00:42:43.969 --> 00:42:45.639 you're feeling fine. The last thing you want to be around is depressed people. 613 00:42:45.679 --> 00:42:49.840 When you're depressed, the best place to go is to a depression meeting. 614 00:42:49.880 --> 00:42:52.440 I don't think there's many to I don't think there's many depressed people here. 615 00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:57.559 Well, we mean well with with depression or actively depressed. Like there's 616 00:42:57.599 --> 00:43:00.349 probably quite a few people depression, but I've just I think a lot of 617 00:43:00.389 --> 00:43:06.230 people have PTSD, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder. So because depression won't manifest well, 618 00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:07.789 be hard for you to deal with in this situation. Is a tenant 619 00:43:08.030 --> 00:43:10.670 with it? Maybe, I don't know. Isolation will kill you still. 620 00:43:10.989 --> 00:43:14.860 I mean either way, because we all live in little boxes and so if 621 00:43:14.860 --> 00:43:16.900 you're slightly depressed, the isolation will just put you in deeper. And a 622 00:43:16.940 --> 00:43:20.420 lot of people here are too poor to before the internet or TV, so 623 00:43:20.500 --> 00:43:23.219 they literally sit in a box all day and stare at the wall. It's 624 00:43:23.260 --> 00:43:27.250 twisted. We got to fix that anyway. Cool Man, I appreciate you 625 00:43:27.329 --> 00:43:30.250 coming on. Let's let's talk about other weird stuff in the future. Yeah, 626 00:43:30.250 --> 00:43:37.130 okay, I'll have a segment called ask mark. I know styles on 627 00:43:37.369 --> 00:43:43.159 my cheese and sat five following joy. Excuse me,